[MD] Social Imposition ?

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting PhaedrusWolff at carolina.rr.com:

> Hi All,
> 
> I'm still stuck on this thought there is not collective mind. 
> 
> Man developed as a social animal, and has become dependent on creating 
> of cultures through collective thinking, and it is more than just 
> psychological in that our wellness is dependent on this 
> interconnectivity of collective thinking. What we are calling cultures 
> are an interconnection between collective thinking of man, as well as 
> all we experience through nature, including man and even the cosmos. 
> We are conceptual beings from birth, and our interrelationship to each 
> other was and is needed by man to evolve. 

What is "collective thinking?" To me collective thinking means mob mentality.
 
> The term consciousness and mind are considered the same in the Eastern 
> religions Pirsig speaks of, and only in the West are we ‘convinced’ 
> our self-awareness is from individual interpretation related only to 
> the functions of the brain. 

To me the organ we call the brain taps into universal mind or consciousness, just
as our other organs respond to environmental influences. But each response is
unique and individual, just as each brain is unique and individual.

> The difference, or at least as I see it, in Eastern spirituality and 
> Western science, is that in the East, spirituality is not looked at as 
> a religion that has developed, but was always with us. Even saying 
> this, I am thinking more toward ancient Eastern spirituality, as I 
> believe this spirituality is being lost in the East as well as the 
> West. 

Universal mind or consciousness is known spiritually, but I prefer the word 
"aesthetically" because it brings spirituality closer to everyday experience.

> In this sense, I might agree there is no ‘Collective Mind’, as it 
> seems we are losing it. By losing it, we may not be evolving to a 
> better world, but destroying the world we live in. Spirituality is not 
> the same as a religion or belief system, but the same spirituality 
> that keeps animals from killing each other, but only going through 
> ritual confrontations where once one has proven the superior, the 
> confrontation ends with the weaker one recognizing the other is 
> superior, not an egoistic fight to the death, or killing out whole 
> tribes for no reason other than ego, and advancing our own wealth and 
> power. 

Tribes have been killing one another since the beginning of recorded history,
including tribes of the East. I don't see any connection to collective
mind, spirituality or animals fighting for territorial or sexual dominance.  
 
> To me the idea of non-connectedness through an individual mind, only 
> subject of its singular brain functions would not be Dynamic Quality, 
> but a static quality, a society of egoistic approach which has led to 
> the collective consciousness in our Western religions of creating 
> ourselves as superior to those Easterners, as well as the Westerners 
> who interpreted our Bible differently. If the others don’t stand on 
> one foot, rub their belly and pat their head, then they are going to 
> Hell!, and it is our duty to save them. 

Pirsig says only individuals, not societies, respond to DQ.

> The idea of collective mind to me would be one of interpretation, and 
> the denial of a collective mind might be a recognition that our social 
> evolvement is creating the chaos Pirsig spoke of in our dogmatic 
> beliefs in ‘Scientific’ observation of perceived facts; that we can 
> point to it with our little Aristotelian fingers and call it 
> knowledge, and this is all the mind is capable of, the functions of 
> observance in the brain. 
> 
> Have we not advanced from genetic evolvement to social evolvement? 
> Does our evolving not depend on our social environment? Is our 
> developed language not from evolving socially? Could we even exist now 
> without social stimulation? 

I don't think anyone denies social patterns are needed for human survival.

> IMHO, it is not a matter of whether or not we have a collective mind, 
> but if we are losing our collective mind; sinking into a static 
> quality, a mechanical existence, a society of lemmings susceptible to 
> Herd Behavior, all in the pretense of being intellectually superior. 

No doubt there is a lot of herd mentality going on, especially in the
areas of the world ruled by fundamentalist religions like Islam and among
devotees of political parties like the Democrats. But, the purpose of 
an individual human life is to rise above the herd, strike out on one's own,
and if lucky, contribute something unique and special to move evolution onward
and upward in response to DQ, or least prevent evolution from slipping back to
where herds are celebrated over the individual. Another words, be someone
like Robert Pirsig. :-)

Platt


  


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