[MD] Social Imposition ?

[Heather Perella]

     [Platt]
> Twins qualify as a society? I don't think so.
> Neither does a mosh pit.

     Here's a definition of society from an
anthropology textbook.  Society:  "People share
society - organized life in groups - with other
animals."  (Cultural Anthropology; Kottak)  Society is
different than culture.  Society just shows sharing,
giving, for it is a group of people organized together
by relationships.  Here's another definition of
society from another anthropology textbook from a
different editor.  "Society may be defined as a group
of people who not only are dependent on each other for
survival, but who share a common culture as well.  The
way in wh9ich these people depend upon each other can
be seen in such things as their economic systems and
their family relationships; moreover, members of a
society are held together by a sense of common
identity.  Culture and society are two closely related
concepts...  Some other species of animals, however,
do lead a social existence.  Ants and bees, for
example, instinctively cooperate in a manner that
clearly indicates a degree of social organization, yet
this instinctual behavior is not a culture.  Whether
or not there exist animals other than humans that
exhibit cultural behavior is a question..."  (Cultural
Anthropology; Haviland)  The other definition I've
been giving was one I learned in a sociology course. 
A society is two or people organized together via a
relationship.  I don't know where your problem exists
with these definitions. 


     [Platt]
> In the MOQ, the social level is about humans only.

     Yeah, and then Dan asked Pirsig if sign language
by a gorilla (I believe, but it was another primate)
counts as thought or society (I can't remember, Dan if
you might remember?).  Anyways, Pirsig is focusing
only on human beings.  He would be similar to
Confucius who only focused on human beings, meanwhile
Daoists took a wider view on life and included nature.
 Confucius philosophers accused Daoists of being too
vague, and Daoists accused Confucians of being too
narrow.  To not include other animals in society is a
narrow-minded view.  Yet, it seems that the social
level, to use to word social in the MoQ is very
differently defined than the rest of the academic
world.  Yet, Pirsig did not define it clearly, so,
what do we have to use.  I'm using the simple society
= beings in relationships and intellectual =
thought/mind.  Yet, it seems you've used society to
mean thoughts that have been shared.  And thoughts
that aren't shared are thoughts on the intellectual
level.  Is this correct?  How can we measure when a
thought is old v. new, for you say Pirsig's MoQ is
intellectual still cause its' new, yet, Einsteins is
just social level cause its' old and been absorbed
into society long enough.  How do we know what long
enough is?  Also, a thought absorbed into society
would be a helpful thought, and Pirsig's MoQ is not
absorbed yet, and not many people understand quantum
physics, I don't know what the test is here?  How many
people have to know a thought for it to cross the
threshold of intellectual level into social level?


     [Platt]
> It includes the institution of
> marriage but is not defined by a married couple.
> Thinking of humans
> as insects and other forms of vermin has led to all
> sorts of atrocities. I'm
> surprised you make the comparison.

     An insect has a leg and a human has a leg, oh my,
I've made a comparison, oh we're sooo alike, help me,
help me.  Sorry had to throw that in there, it just
seemed funny.  :-)  We have arms and heads, too. :-)  
     Society is not culture.  Society is simple
organized relationships between beings (between
people, between bees, between ants, etc...).  Culture
is on the social level, too.  Except kinds of
thoughts, such as U.S. v. say, Chinese thoughts. 
These are cultural, yet, thoughts of the mind,
therefore, are intellectual level.



rainy day,
SA

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