[MD] Dawkins a Materialist

[david buchanan]

Case said:
...I maintain that by speaking the language of faith to the faithful the 
Jesus Seminar is a more effective voice against fundamentalism the cracking 
jokes about lion poop and calling people stupid.

Dan replied:
How is propping up the faith of the faithful an effective voice against 
fundamentalism? It sounds (to me) a great deal like preaching to the choir, 
or to put it more succinctly, poop.

dmb says:
Yea, I don't get that either. What sense does it make to criticize one kind 
faith from the standpoint of a different sort of faith? I guess I can only 
speak for myself, but it seems that distinction would be entirely irrelevant 
if one is making a case against faith-based beliefs. I mean, I've never come 
close to saying that theism is perfectly fine unless its this or that kind 
of theism. When it comes to rejecting faith-based theism, I'm really not 
that picky. I'd reject them all in favor of a religous worldview based on 
experience and knowledge, one that respects rationality and evidence, 
philosophy and science. I want a religion that makes sense and requires no 
faith whatsoever. Don't you? I'm not talking about perfect answers or 
eternal truth, just something that's not built on wishes or bullshit.

By the way, the lion poop jokes were not about religion so much as the 
paranoia of certain MOQers, who tend to take this sort of criticism as a 
form of persecution. As if such criticisms were off limits. Pah-leeeze. 
Nothing is off limits and anyone who is uncomfortable with being so 
challenged has no business in a place like this. The problem with theists is 
not that they are stupid but that they are anti-intellectual and or 
reactionary. This is where the social-intellectual distinction pays off, I 
think. There happens to be a pretty strong correlation, enough that one 
could make a generalization. Its like John Stuart Mill said. "Conservatives 
aren't necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." We 
could substitute "creationist" or "theist" or any number of 
anti-intellectual positions and it would be just as good a generalization, I 
think. And the situation is even worse in this context. I mean, I can't see 
how it would be logically possible to make a case for theism or any kind of 
faith-based beliefs within the MOQ. I'm not saying that anyone who says 
otherwise is stupid, but I'm pretty sure that such a position would have to 
be based on some kind of misconception cause it just doesn't add up.

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