[MD] Where have all the values gone?

[Platt Holden]

Quoting David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>:
 
> DM: Yes it is a world of plenty. Yes productive powers will still grow,
> but I suspect we have been through the big push and things will
> be slower to evolve from now on. History is not always a good teacher
> because there is DQ as well as SQ in its workings. And most things
> have their day, they start, have a high point, then a plateau or end
> point.
> If I am right then we may need to solve our social problems by more 
> equality,
> probably not total equality.

I think imposing equality would be an example of a social value attempting
to devour an intellectual value. The evidence is overwhelming that people
are not equal.  

PH:
> > Profits are needed to invest in improvements, pay for government
> programs,
> > and save for a rainy day.
 
> DM:  No, if we had not for profit companies the full salary could be
> paid
> to individuals and they could then choose how to invest it for even
> more
> DQ.

We have a number of non-profit companies available to anyone who chooses to
work for them. 

> Tax is for Govn stuff not profits.

Unless I make a profit, the government has nothing to tax. If I my business
expenses equaled or exceeded my income last year, I don't owe any tax.

> We should admit how much we tax
> staff by not pretending some of their work is profits which are then
> taxed.

I'm in favor of eliminating personal income tax if that's what you mean.

PH: 
> > Freedom to do with your money as you see fit is entirely moral in my
> > opinion
> > as compared to the alternative of somebody else deciding how to spend
> your
> > money for you.
 
> DM: When you die you can no longer own money. Why should your children
> have it. Maybe you should have to spend it all before you die instead.
> Else
> it is just burnt with your body.

Why shouldn't I be free to dispose of my wealth as I see fit? Why is it
immoral to leave money to my kids? Why is it moral for you or somebody else
to decide how my money ought to be spent?

PH:
> > I think it's more moral to permit people to spend their time as they
> > desire
> >  rather than making them do what they may not want to do. So long as
> you
> > are  free to pursue what you think best there's no moral reason not
> to
> > extend that same freedom to others.
> 
> DM: That's what I am saying! We only have to work so much because stuff
> costs so much because someone is adding unnecessary profits to the
> price!
 
Why shouldn't the producer be free to charge for his product or service
whatever the free market will pay? 
 
PH:
> > Finally, I can think of no other economic system that has provided as
> much
> > leisure time to the citizenery than free market capitalism.
> >
> 
> DM: True, yet we could have more now if we ditch profits!
 
Without profits there's little incentive to produce.

PH:
> > We all have ideas about how to make the world a better place. The
> question
> > we have to answer is "At what cost?" Morally, the loss of individual
> > freedom
> > is the least desirable of all costs.
> 
> DM: I believe that too above all else, I could not desire freedom more
> if I tried, but I see benefits and no cost to my ideas. 

By eliminating profits, I see losses in taxes and incentives to produce. I
also see some losses of freedom. Most importantly, profits support the
police and military who keep dangerous biological forces at bay.

Platt



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