[MD] Where have all the values gone?

[David M]

Hi Platt


see comments


> I think imposing equality would be an example of a social value attempting
> to devour an intellectual value. The evidence is overwhelming that people
> are not equal.

DM: Imposing? Who said that? I am just saying how I will vote, I hope to
persuade and gain majority. I would like to improve the social level to
enhance the foundation that the 4th level builds on. You know if society
breaks down the 4th levelis stuffed, that's my fear.EspeciallyasI am a book
not a flash car man. Yes people are not equal, access to resources certainly
could be though I see no need to go that far, I just think we need more 
equality
of income not exactly equal. The reason: fear that we are pissing our 
society down
the drain.
>
> We have a number of non-profit companies available to anyone who chooses 
> to
> work for them.

DM: Yes, and we should have more, I vote that we tax the former more and
help the set up of the latter.

>
>> Tax is for Govn stuff not profits.
>
> Unless I make a profit, the government has nothing to tax. If I my 
> business
> expenses equaled or exceeded my income last year, I don't owe any tax.


DM: Profit is a tax applied to workers and divided up between govn and
capital owners. Interest protects capital from inflation, why should it?
Capital should run down over time like any other natural thing.
Who elsevotes for zero interest rates and no more dividends?

>
>> We should admit how much we tax
>> staff by not pretending some of their work is profits which are then
>> taxed.
>
> I'm in favor of eliminating personal income tax if that's what you mean.

DM: Well if profits were not extracted from our pay to pay the govn and 
owners of
capital we would really see how much we are being taxed and could really
help fight the against state spending waste & really decide how it gets 
spent.


>
>> DM: When you die you can no longer own money. Why should your children
>> have it. Maybe you should have to spend it all before you die instead.
>> Else
>> it is just burnt with your body.
>
> Why shouldn't I be free to dispose of my wealth as I see fit? Why is it
> immoral to leave money to my kids? Why is it moral for you or somebody 
> else
> to decide how my money ought to be spent?

DM: Who are you to say what happens with money left on earth
when you die? Let's face it your dead and you can't say what you think.
A static dead will is not very DQ. Why should your kids get handouts from
you? Are they hopeless or lazy?


>
>> DM: That's what I am saying! We only have to work so much because stuff
>> costs so much because someone is adding unnecessary profits to the
>> price!
>
> Why shouldn't the producer be free to charge for his product or service
>whatever the free market will pay?

DM: Fact is we are squeezing the profits out of business every day.
Fact is that's going tomake it implode as a system.



>
> PH:
>> > Finally, I can think of no other economic system that has provided as
>> much
>> > leisure time to the citizenery than free market capitalism.
>> >
>>
>> DM: True, yet we could have more now if we ditch profits!
>
> Without profits there's little incentive to produce.

DM: Ever heard of being paid to work, it is quite different
from over charging to pay capital to be protected from inflation,
a very anti-dynamic business practise.


>
> By eliminating profits, I see losses in taxes and incentives to produce. I
> also see some losses of freedom. Most importantly, profits support the
> police and military who keep dangerous biological forces at bay.
>

DM: Taxes pay for police not profits, no profits equalt more pay,
more pay covers the tax problem, & more
pay sounds like a good incentive to me. And if there was more global
equality perhaps we could give up war and spend all the tank and
bombs money on nice things.