[MD] Where have all the values gone?

[David M]

Hi Platt

See comments below:

Finally, for the intellectual level the highest "citizen value" is freedom 
from social control.

>> DM: What is intellectual about amassing wealth?
>
> Freedom from social control.

DM: If we were entirely free from social restraint we would have no basis
for sustaining a society, is this not the error the 60s intellectuals made.
Is amassing wealth not a biological value, status a social value, spreading
the possibility of fulfillment and DQ an intellectual value. The problem is
not simply excess wealth but the low level values reflected in its poor
use.

> I'd rather read you version of why limiting individual freedom is moral 
> rather than
> Scruton's. The framers of the Constitutiion constructed the political 
> machinery of
> the social level.

DM: Surely the use of wealth power somewhat undermines the intentions set 
out
in your constitution?

> There can be no investments without profits whether profits show up on a 
> piece of
> paper or not.

DM: We can invest in assets, assets are quality things we have made. What 
have
quality things got to do with profit?


> Why shouldn't I collect interest on money I risk by loaning it to you for 
> your use?
> Are you looking for a free lunch?

DM: You got paid for your work, you can spend it, you can give it away, you
can lend it to someone. You want interest? Who is after a free lunch here?
> How are consumers squeezing profits by seeking the best deal in a free 
> market? Last I
> looked the economy was booming.

DM: You want to under-cut your competition you have to cut your 
margins/profits.


>> DM: Who makes the profit, owners or workers? Come on? But I
>> grant that some owners do some work,they should get paid for that.
>> Imagine there are no dividends or interest, everything else can carry on
>> as normal, apart from who is making the decisions.
>
> Owners and workers collaborate to make a profit.

DM: Workers work, owners want a free lunch.


> So you are in favor of increasing income taxes and eliminating taxes on 
> corporate
> profits by eliminating profits?

DM: Yep, you get more total pay, pay more tax, still have more money in your
pocket, but no one gets any interest. In fact you could have negative 
interest
and make your economu really dynamic. Economists have discussed this idea.


> >
> By fair play and sharing I gather you believe that redistributing wealth 
> from those
> that have more to those that have less would be a good thing. Is that what 
> you think?
> If so, on what moral grounds do you base such a belief?
>

DM:  How about pragmatic grounds, competition is not all bad, but if the 
winner
takes all, then takes it again, then again, the losers are likely to stop 
playing,
start cheating, or start banging us winners over the head. Actually funny 
thing is
the more money we have we all just seem to spend it all on bidding up
property prices -seems really pointless.