[MD] Where have all the values gone?

[Arlo Bensinger]

Erin,

After reading your differentiation between "equate" and "include" I went 
back to your original post. When I pointed out Platt's recent statement, 
"Without profits there's little incentive
to produce.". You said, "Well first I would distinguish business and 
culture". It was to this I replied "culture includes business". Do you feel 
that if culture includes business it is possible to "distinguish" them? How 
so? You went on saying, "Maybe your quickness to equate them is by your 
Marxist attitude of "money is the measure of man". I'm still waiting for 
some type of intelligent support of this statement.

What you could have said with a modicum of intelligent reasoning is that to 
Marx, "labor" referred to all forms of human activity where an active agent 
set about manipulating or altering an object. So "working in a factory" 
would not be a different form of activity than "painting in your free 
time". His argument was precisely founded on the notion that emerging modes 
of production CAUSED this split, where we differentiate what we do for 
"work" and what we do for "enjoyment". "Labor", to Marx, covers both. When 
you paint a picture on a Saturday afternoon, that is "labor". When Pirsig 
fixes his cycle in his garage, that is "labor". When an assembly line 
worker turns a screw for 10 hours, that is "labor". What motivates us to 
engage in labor activity is precisely the question. We are told, we go to 
work to earn money, and we do things on the weekends because we enjoy them, 
but Marx would argue that such a distinction is artificial. To sum, Marx 
would likely say that "money BECOMES the measure of man, when man accepts 
mercantilian norms". Do you disagree?

This gets right back to the entire premise for this conversation, 
craftsmanship. What motivates the craftsman? Money? Profit? According to 
Platt's statement, even if I put my logical sensibilities aside and accept 
your "distinguishing" between business and culture, the craftsman in 
business would have little incentive to produce were it not for "profit". 
Do you accept this? Do you feel that "motivation to produce" is different 
for "business" as opposed to "culture"?

I don't expect you to answer any of this, of course. As you said "Game 
Over". And, really, all you've done to this point is offer arrogance, anger 
and ridicule, the expected "I am Lila" type responses. Why should that 
change? I'll try to remember this in the future, lest I entertain foolish 
thoughts that coherent conversation between us is possible. Like I said, we 
obviously speak different languages.

Arlo