[MD] Flying Spaghetti Monsters

[Micah]

Ham,

>1. Reality exists as an objective absolute-facts are facts, independent of
>man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

But not independent of man. Reality exists objectively, but only in the
presence of man.

>2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material
provided
>by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source
>of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
>..."

Reason is the tool, the senses are the mechanism.

>There were two other points quoted, which allude to her concepts of
>Selfishness and Individualism; but it seems clear to me that Rand regarded
>physical reality as a given, that is, primary to whatever we consciously
>perceive it to be.  I'm not sure that this attribution of "differentiation
>and integration" to Consciousness is entirely consistent with Rand's
>assertions.  If this is indeed the philosopher's own statement, I can see
>where her epistemology of Consciousness might be compatible with Pirsig's
>"experience" and my "cognizance".

>I know I read a book called 'Objectivism' by Rand, but it looks like I'll
>have to add this one to my library if I'm going to debate with Micah and
>Laramie.  I can't seem to find any text from it on line.

Try "The Voice of Reason" and "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" by
Ayn Rand.

Micah


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ham Priday
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:11 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spaghetti Monsters



Greetings, Craig --



[Ham]:
> I don't recall Rand having outlined an epistemology as such.

[Craig]:
> Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology: Expanded Second Edition
> (Paperback) by Ayn Rand, Harry Binswanger (Editor), Leonard
> Peikoff (Editor) "Consciousness, as a state of awareness, is not a
> passive state, but an active process that consists of two essentials:
> differentiation and integration..."

Thanks for the reference.  I understand that this book was published after
Rand's death in 1982, and that most of the posthumous writings came from
lectures and interviews and the collaboration of Peikoff and Branden who
were her designated spokesmen for the Objectivist movement.

I found this direct quotation allegedly recorded during Rand's promotional
tour for "Atlas Shrugged".

"My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

1. Reality exists as an objective absolute-facts are facts, independent of
man's feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided
by man's senses) is man's only means of perceiving reality, his only source
of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
..."

There were two other points quoted, which allude to her concepts of
Selfishness and Individualism; but it seems clear to me that Rand regarded
physical reality as a given, that is, primary to whatever we consciously
perceive it to be.  I'm not sure that this attribution of "differentiation
and integration" to Consciousness is entirely consistent with Rand's
assertions.  If this is indeed the philosopher's own statement, I can see
where her epistemology of Consciousness might be compatible with Pirsig's
"experience" and my "cognizance".

I know I read a book called 'Objectivism' by Rand, but it looks like I'll
have to add this one to my library if I'm going to debate with Micah and
Laramie.  I can't seem to find any text from it on line.

Appreciate your interest, Craig.

-- Ham

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