[MD] No more SOM and no more money!

[David M]

Hi Steve

Well maybe it is hard to say, perhaps capitalism will
unify the world (globalisation) and we shall all
be workers and consumers in a world of plenty.

But can this happen? For us to all to have western levels
of consumption we need 3 planets for the current population
and resources are running out.

Can we find new resources and/or get 3 times more efficient
at using them? Maybe, maybe not.

Can we stop these wars over the earth's resources?

My feeling is that we already live in a world of plenty,
the main problem is lack of equality. Why is there such
a lack? Does capitalism promote an increase in
productive powers? Yes. Can it keep doing so?
Looks like has slowed down to me. Does capitalism
promote inequality? Looks like yes to me.

Even if this was a world of abundance would we be
happy to see 90% of everything in the hands of 10%
of the population. Sure we may want to reward some
people more than others but is the current position
not excessive?

Where does it end? Where there is one person, and they
own everything and we all work them for our right to exist
on their planet? Kinda of guess when the ratios are too silly
we shrug our shoulders and say sorry we're have the planet
back now thanks and we're decide how it's looked after
as our home not as a exploitation frenzy and a rubbish tip.

ta
David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Hannon" <stevehannon at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] No more SOM and no more money!


> David M, Micah, Craig, others in this post:
>
> I think we can all agree that some people in the world are extremely
> rich, while others suffer in extreme poverty.  I think the original
> point to this thread was:
>
> Does capitalism require that some people suffer in such extreme poverty?
>
> If it doesn't than why do some people suffer in extreme poverty?
>
> Regards,
> Steve H
>
> On 11/6/06, Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com> wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> You can earn your keep anyway you like, even live off the land.
>>
>> Yes, Capitalism is a real concept. People organize, systems don't.
>>
>> I probably mis-understood your plan, I think it was to democratically 
>> choose
>> the best idea, and have everyone work towards that idea, right? What 
>> about
>> those that were in the minority, that chose a different idea, will they 
>> be
>> forced to work in service of the elected idea?
>>
>> Yes, I live off my capital, like we all do - your labor is one form of
>> capital. I'm not confused.
>>
>> I care about living in a free, and therefore capitalist country,  and the
>> USA is neither.
>>
>> I urge you to try and live by your principles, regardless of their
>> popularity.
>>
>> Micah
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
>> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 11:49 AM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] No more SOM and no more money!
>>
>>
>> Micah
>>
>> >
>> > You are not forced to work for anyone.
>>
>> DM: I am pretty sure you can't survive without working,
>> yes you can choose to starve.
>>
>> Why are you blaming a concept for
>> > human problems?
>>
>> DM: It's a real system of social organisation not just a concept you 
>> know.
>>
>> >
>> > And yes, you are advocating a form of slavery if you force others to 
>> > work
>> > on
>> > the "best Ideas".
>>
>> DM: What??!! I am suggesting we move to democratic decision making rather
>> then vested interests making these decision, what on earth are you 
>> talking
>> about?
>>
>> >
>> > I'm a capitalist, and I'm not a raging success, but that is my fault - 
>> > not
>> > Capitalism's.
>>
>> You're a capitalist?! So you don't work you live off of your capital 
>> then?
>> I think you're a bit confused, are you working too hard?
>>
>> >
>> > If you want to change the system, quit playing along. Don't vote. 
>> > Voting
>> > is
>> > your moral sanction of a corrupt system.
>> >
>>
>> DM: I know exactly how to change the system, but can't do it on my own.
>> Sometimes there's only any point jumping if you are not alone. But you're
>> the capitalist Sir so what do you care?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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