[MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes

Tue Nov 7 18:29:26 PST 2006

I really can't argue too much with what David has to say below:
  Sustainable economic and biological systems are the key issue.  And the theology of the stockholder quarterly bottom lines is a relic.

  All this talk about "isms" gives me a stitch in the side.  What is really meaningful and important is human nature. That is what is driving everything.  If this planet doesn't hurry up and grow some intelligent life.  We can look forward to a really rugged future.

  By the way on another subject. If they are really going to hang Saddam for crimes against humanity or what ever else the show trial has found.  Wouldn't it be a good idea to hang bush the PREZ right beside him.  Think of how many deaths of innocent Iraqi's his policies have caused since we sparked the civil war in Iraq.

  AS A GOOD AMERICAN I SAY: SUPPORT THE TROOPS, BRING HALLIBURTON AND BECHTEL HOME.   This is a war just made for capitalists and profiteers.  Looks like a human and environmental disaster on the other hand.  But too few people really care. Hope the election today in America will trigger a few policy mid course corrections
  Robbie

David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
  Hi Micah

System treats me real good, but not sure
the whole of the human race are enjoying it too
much overall. Sure the comfortable minority
(damn it that includes me) don't need change,
but the majority ain't gonna back if they can any
say in it. Anyway capitalism has had it, the growth
is gonna stop, the resources are declining. Further
productivity increases are now looking like a pipe dream.

We need to start managing sustainability and share
holder profit maximisation is not going to deliver
on this. Wake up the future is coming and gee wiz
that means change is inevitable. Anyone round here
heard of DQ?

David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Micah" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes

> David,
>
> No, the system doesn't do anything, people do. Open your eyes, people like
> the comfort of sameness and will destroy anything new and different if it
> causes major change for them. But, I guess it's comforting to point at a
> system and lay blame than to look in the mirror.
>
> Micah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 12:25 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes
>
>
> Hi Micah
>
> Don't you imagine there might be a connection
> between the name for the system and the way it
> manifests? The system does not really want us
> to all be good litlle savers does it? Open your
> eyes, our society is so conformist, how does this
> come into being? Who is benefitting? What
> processes support this bland conformity?
>
> David M
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Micah" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes
>
>
>> David,
>>
>> Again, that is consumerism - not capitalism.
>>
>> Micah
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:56 PM
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes
>>
>>
>> addictively consuming junk,until the planet is a wasteland, really 
>> bright!
>>
>> David M
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Micah" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 6:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes
>>
>>
>>> Stella completely misunderstands capitalism. Capitalism is the logical
>>> extension of individual freedom in the marketplace. Consumerism is not
>>> capitalism. Capitalism is not theology. It is the freedom to exchange
>>> goods
>>> and services without coercion.
>>>
>>> Micah
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
>>> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Stella Lindblom
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:46 AM
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Capitalism in all it's shapes
>>>
>>>
>>> I think I got it. We didn't get very far in the discussion, but I 
>>> learned
>>> some important things. Not the one's I had looked for, but others. It's
>>> see no use to discuss this further.
>>>
>>> Capitalist thinking is one of the components in the founding of the USA,
>>> a
>>> part of it's essence. It's intertwined in it's culture and history in
>>> such
>>> a way that it is impossible to separate the two.
>>>
>>> All cultures have a Story about themselves and about what is important
>>> and
>>> valuable. The US Story is "the self-made man", "the American dream",
>>> "freedom to money" and things of that kind. It's all about the right to
>>> get rich, the value of becoming Somebody (and Somebodies are or always
>>> become extremely wealthy) and spreading the right way of living over the
>>> world because happiness may only be found in comsumerism.
>>>
>>> But I'm not american - I don't belive in this, and I don't believe it's
>>> worth the while to discuss it further. Why? In trying to examine the
>>> foundations of capitalism and the distorted way we are dealing with
>>> valuables today, I have to de-construct "the american way of life",
>>> something that in turn is a part of the identity of being american. The
>>> values of society is part of our national identities, regardless of
>>> nationality, and anything I say against capitalism will be construed as 
>>> a
>>> slur on America herself, and in extension, a slur on the identity of
>>> anybody believing in capitalism. So I stop here. I now understand that
>>> this is a question of theology.
>>>
>>>
>>> No need to tell me things on-list as I will un-subscribe as soon as this
>>> message is posted.
>>> If anybody feels inclined to contact me for whatever reason, it may be
>>> done off-list.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Stella
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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