[MD] Fw: Sin

[MarshaV]

Greetings,

I know you are discussing the MOQ which was developed in LILA.  I'd 
like to add something from ZMM which speaks about quality creating 
analogues (knives, Capitalism, warfare, etc.)

Marsha


"``The easiest intellectual analogue of pure Quality that people in 
our environment can understand is that `Quality is the response of an 
organism to its environment' (he used this example because his chief 
questioners seemed to see things in terms of stimulus-response 
behavior theory). An amoeba, placed on a plate of water with a drip 
of dilute sulfuric acid placed nearby, will pull away from the acid 
(I think). If it could speak the amoeba, without knowing anything 
about sulfuric acid, could say, `This environment has poor quality.' 
If it had a nervous system it would act in a much more complex way to 
overcome the poor quality of the environment. It would seek 
analogues, that is, images and symbols from its previous experience, 
to define the unpleasant nature of its new environment and thus 
`understand' it.

``In our highly complex organic state we advanced organisms respond 
to our environment with an invention of many marvelous analogues. We 
invent earth and heavens, trees, stones and oceans, gods, music, 
arts, language, philosophy, engineering, civilization and science. We 
call these analogues reality. And they are reality. We mesmerize our 
children in the name of truth into knowing that they are reality. We 
throw anyone who does not accept these analogues into an insane 
asylum. But that which causes us to invent the analogues is Quality. 
Quality is the continuing stimulus which our environment puts upon us 
to create the world in which we live. All of it. Every last bit of it.

``Now, to take that which has caused us to create the world, and 
include it within the world we have created, is clearly impossible. 
That is why Quality cannot be defined. If we do define it we are 
defining something less than Quality itself.'' "     (ZMM, Chapter 21)



At 02:07 PM 11/15/2006, Dan wrote:
>Hello everyone
>
> >From: "Micah" <micah at roarkplumbing.com>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >Subject: Re: [MD] Fw:  Sin
> >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:07:05 -0600
> >
> >Is a knife moral?
>
>"Quality is morality. Make no mistake about it. They're identical. And if
>Quality is the primary reality of the world then that means morality is also
>the primary reality of the world. The world is primarily a moral order."
>(LILA)
>
> >Of course this is a ridiculous question, as is asking if
> >Capitalism or any other system is moral. People have morals.
>
>The question is only ridiculous from a subject-object perspective. From the
>MOQ perspective the answer would be: Yes. A knife is primarily a moral
>order. Indeed, the whole world is primarily a moral order. And remember,
>people don't have morals. Morality (Quality) has the people!
>
> >Why people
> >insist on giving human characteristics to non-humans is baffling.
>
>If "man is the measure of all things", then why is this so baffling to you?
>
>It seems that you have one foot planted in SOM and the other foot planted in
>rapidly hardening concrete. It's good to have convictions but only until
>something better (like the MOQ) comes along. A lot of what you say is right
>but in a wrong sort of way, if you get my drift. I think that's what Case is
>getting at too.
>
>Thank you for your comments,
>
>Dan