[MD] Essentialism and the MOQ

[Joseph Maurer]

On Saturday 18 November 2006 12:27 PM Laramie writes to Joe:

Good points.

Do any of the seven orders proposed by Gurdjieff go beyond Pirsig's?

Cheers,


Hi Laramie

Good question.

I don't have a handle on the orders Gurdjieff proposes. A part of Gurdjieff's 
methodology is to examine a distinction between cosmic evolution and 
conscious evolution. Behavior based on cosmic evolution is mechanical. The 
force of cosmic evolution is so strong, it kind of forces me to go with the 
flow without much awareness of what I am doing. Conscious evolution leads to 
enlightenment. I have to remember myself. When I suggested to Bo that a 
possible explanation of the difference between Subjective and Objective 
experience is the difference between conscious and cosmic evolution he told 
me to keep thinking.

Gurdjieff describes the movement up the octave as needing a shock between 
the third and forth levels, and between the seventh level and the start of a 
new octave.

IMO proprietary awareness is mechanical. Conscious awareness is not 
mechanical. According to Gurdjieff nature provides the shock of air (breath) 
between the third and forth levels. An infant grows into a child. A child 
becomes accustomed to the shock of air with his food to become aware in the 
forth level. IMO air with food provides the mechanical shock for the 
proprietary awareness level.

Conscious awareness evolves at the fifth level through my remembered good 
impressions increasing awareness. Only a conscious remembering of myself can 
sort through what kind of impressions I have experienced. Impressions, air, 
food are a conscious wake up call for a self remembering of good that can 
lead me to enlightenment at the sixth and seventh levels. Good before Truth.

Joe


> Hello Joe,
>
> Good points.
>
> Do any of the seven orders proposed by Gurdjieff go beyond Pirsig's?
>
> Cheers,
> Laramie
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Joseph Maurer<mailto:jhmau at sbcglobal.net>
>  To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org<mailto:moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>  Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:05 PM
>  Subject: Re: [MD] Essentialism and the MOQ
>
>
>  On Saturday 18 November 2006 10:26 AM Ham writes to Platt:
>
>  >snip<
>
>  According to Pirsig, existence is everything, and reality is simply a
>  melding of all differences into Quality. We don't experience things this
>  way, but we can pretend that differences don't exist. We can also delude
>  ourselves into thinking that value is morality. We can be Pollyannas and
>  view the world as a beautiful moral order. This isn't philosophy, it's
>  poetic fancy. There is no metaphysical or scientific theory to support 
> such
>  a view.
>
>
>  Hi Ham, Platt and All,
>
>  Ham, when you state: "According to Pirsig, existence is everything, and
>  reality is simply a melding of all differences into Quality." you have
>  oversimplified Pirsig's view of evolution as 'melding'. IMO for Pirsig to
>  propose evolution as moral he is proposing dimensions in existence rather
>  than 'melding'. Value becomes morality as the analogue to a necessary 
> order
>  in existence.  Disorder is a lack of value.
>
>  IMO there are 7 orders of existence. The Octave of sound, do, re, mi, fa,
>  sol, la, ti is an example of this order. The color spectrum is another
>  example. The beauty of music, painting, architecture is in the 
> relationships
>  in this order in different mediums-- art. The law of seven is proposed in
>  the esoteric literature of Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, Nicoll, Rodney Collins, 
> as
>  well as a law of three for each manifestation.  Pirsig sees four orders 
> of
>  existence for morality.
>
>  Joe
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