[MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters

[Micah]

David M,

Actually Kant says our experience is our perception of reality and that
reality, in itself, cannot truly be known. Which is to say he uses his
perceptions to deny his perceptions. I would agree with him from a different
point of view. Reality is chaos and our perception is the
anthropomorphication (new word?) of that chaos, because humans use
structured thought patterns to assimilate reality and thus cannot perceive
chaos. So I kinda agree with him based on different premises, but don't tell
Case - he thinks me no understand Kant.

Micah


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:10 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters


Micah

This is not Kant.Kant says you can
only know reality via experience
and any talk of what an unexperienced reality
is like is speculation and without support.

It is then really an obvious step to just
say that we may as well call this experience
'reality' because it's the only one you're
ever going to know.

David M


----- Original Message -----
From: "Micah" <micah at roarkplumbing.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters


> Case,
>
> So, do you trust your senses? You say you know reality through your
> network
> of sensory nerves, which implies that you trust your senses. Then you say
> you cannot trust your senses to know reality, which of course requires the
> use of your senses to decide that you cannot trust your senses. Which is
> it.
>
> Kant does the same - uses his senses to deny his senses can perceive
> reality.
>
> Micah
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Case
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 1:30 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters
>
>
>
> [Case]
> I know reality through the network of my sensory nerve. I don't see a
> tree.
> I experience photons reflected off of it and impacting my retina I am
> pretty
> fortunate because our species have evolved senses that serve me pretty
> well.
> I gather information in 1,2, and 3 dimensional and can process it in at
> least 5. "I" am the sum total of all this information and the biological
> processes the sustain it. Of all of the belief systems I have thought
> about
> or experienced it works best for me and so I accept it as "controlled
> folly". But you are right I do not know this in an absolute way. I think
> an
> extreme skeptical demand for certainty is asking more from knowledge than
> it
> can deliver.
>
> [Micah]
> Yes, you are using your senses to negate your senses, just like Kant and
> just as contradictory.
>
> [Case]
> I think you are misrepresenting what I said but tell me more about how you
> think Kant does this.
>
>
> [Micah]
> Either your senses are your direct contact to reality (they are) or
> they're
> not. If they are not, you should not have any opinions on anything because
> that would require the use of your senses, and you have admitted they not
> to
> be trusted, therefore you are obviously babbling.
>
> [Case]
> You should look over my post to Ham about false dichotomies and Pascal'
> Wager. I don't demand certainty from my opinions. I frankly abhor the
> idea.
> I think unbending commitment to a conviction is pathological. Blind trust
> is
> dangerous. I know what I think now. But I do things like listen to talk
> radio and Christian apologetics and participate in MoQ discussions to
> avoid
> getting stuck in the kind of rut you seem hellbent on spinning your wheels
> in.
>
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