[MD] Pirsiq and Depression

[gav]

hey mike,
i like those lyrics a lot.

i guess understanding the source of all the phoniness;
and having a few others around that understand it too:
this helps you keep your head above water....and i
should also mention *helping others* helps a lot too. 

patch adams was a great film about depression: patch
checks himslef into the mental ward cos he is
depressed and contemplating suicide, then realises
that he is helping the others in there feel happier
and in doing so he feels better! checks himself out,
studies medicine, starts a free hospital based on
treating the patient rather than the disease.

cheers mike

---> 
> Straight With You
> Mike Craghead c 1999
> 
> And once again you found yourself 
> surrounded by another batch 
> of people talking all the time 
> with nothing much to say 
> so you turned around your hunting hat 
> and you rode the train and got a room 
> and headed for the city lights 
> where you can fade away 
> but just the way it’s always been 
> the places and the people brought you down
>  
> (Chorus:) 
> and it seems like almost all the time 
> you find you feel this way 
> it’s hard for you to care about 
> tommorrow or today 
> and it would be so much easier 
> if they were only straight with you 
> 
> and morning didn’t bring you much 
> but just the same you called her up 
> to ask if she could come on down 
> and maybe catch a show 
> and she never really understood you 
> but a one-way conversation 
> is so much better than nothing 
> when you’re feeling so low 
> and you fell in and out of love with her 
> right up until her taxi drove away 
> 
> (Chorus) 
> 
> And evening fell so hard on you
> you watched another show alone
> you drank too much and dialed her up
> and she wondered why you called
> and the music didn't sound too good
> so you stumbled to the telephone 
> and you found a friend and he told you
> you were headed for a fall
> and you thought that you might run away
> but something made you turn and go back home
> 
> (Chorus) 
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> "Story Behind the Song:"
> This is a song about Holden Caufield, from
> J.D.Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye." I read the book
> (again) and wrote the song right along with the
> story; each verse is a specific event in the book.  
> 
> 
> -----Original message-----
> From: gav gav_gc at yahoo.com.au
> Date: Mon,  2 Oct 2006 16:09:20 -0700
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Pirsiq and Depression
> 
> > hey mike,
> > 
> > --- Mike Craghead  wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi Folks!
> > > > 
> > > Perhaps you can clear this up for me. Most of
> ZAMM
> > > and Lila rang true > 
> > > for me, some was very practical, some just made
> > > general metaphysical > 
> > > sense. But there was a sticking point for me
> that
> > > I'm having trouble > 
> > > digesting: the allowance made for depression.
> > > [Please forgive my lack of specific references;
> I've
> > > lent my copy of > 
> > > Lila to a friend (raise your hand if your copy
> is
> > > missing for the same > 
> > > reason!). And I know next to nothing about
> > > "clinical" depression or any > 
> > > other flavor thereof, beyond my own experience
> with
> > > "normal" teenage > 
> > > angst and "normal" adult frustration.]
> > > > 
> > > In Lila (If memory serves) Pirsig talks about
> > > letting a depressed state > 
> > > run it's course, sort of "rolling" with it as
> part
> > > of the way things > 
> > > are, and accepting it as part of a process.
> (Note:
> > > this wasn't the > 
> > > "stuckness" problem for which Pirsig provides
> sound
> > > advice, but the > 
> > > tolerance of a real state of depression). This
> > > didn't really jibe for > 
> > > me; I found it a passive and counterproductive
> idea.
> > > I've always felt > 
> > > like depression was a problem to correct, not a
> > > means to an end.
> > 
> > well that is also the view taken by the
> pharmaceutical
> > companies: 'unhappy? quick take this!'
> > 
> > look you can't be happy without being unhappy. ups
> and
> > downs. especially when living in a low quality
> > culture.
> > 
> >  i think  a lot of the problem (with young-uns on
> meds
> > that i know) is that they think that it is their
> own
> > fault, exclusively, for not getting on well in
> life;
> > when of course it is a lot more complex than that.
> > 
> > 
> > with such a phony culture(hi jd!) alienation is
> > inevitable. alienation does not have to lead to
> > depression if people have the necessary
> intellectual
> > tools and social support to deal with it. read
> > 'catcher in the rye' for starters.
> > 
> > i think depression is holding on to the downs:
> getting
> > tied up in self-indulgent static patterns so much
> that
> > you wear a mental and eventually physical 'groove'
> > that becomes more and more difficult to get out
> of. > 
> > 
> > if you don't 'hold on' to the depression it will
> run
> > its course more swiftly and easily. non-attachment
> > man.
> > 
> > > > 
> > > On a side note, this brings up another issue
> that
> > > kept popping up while > 
> > > I read Pirsig's books: they are vehicles to
> explain
> > > a worldview, but are > 
> > > they hoping we'll agree? > 
> > 
> > who is 'they'?
> 
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