[MD] The Fringe Factor

[Micah]

Platt,

If you're dead how will know you neighbor is still alive?

Yes, you assume.

You are wrong, an egoist accepts shared objective reality. Solipsists do
not, your "see the cat" example is describing a Solipsist.

The past is part of human reality.

A leap of faith is believing in something that cannot be proven. Reality
cannot be proven to exist independent of man. What is the name of your
faith? I call it irrational.

Micah



-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 6:16 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] The Fringe Factor


Quoting Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com>:

> Platt,
>
> If you die tonight, could you prove that your cat exists?

No. But my neighbor could and she'll be glad to tell you.

> If your cat gets burned and yowls, what kind of pain is he feeling?
Searing,
> stabbing, tingling, aching? Since it is clear to you the pain he is
feeling,
> please describe the pain in detail. And while you're at it, I'm thinking
of
> a number between 1 and 100 - which number is it? Since you can read cats
> minds, humans minds should be easy. Here's a hint - it's a high number.

I can't even describe my own pain much less yours or my cats. But if I find
you doubled over, clutching your stomach while blood is oozing through your
fingers, I can reasonable assume you are hurting.

> Yes, I am an egoist. An egotist would assume to know the thoughts of other
> animals, after assuming that they had thoughts. I don't.

No. I egoist would assume that if he doesn't see my cat, my cat doesn't
exist.

> I don't believe in god, however I do know that the past is part of man's
> reality.
>
> This is not either/or. Reality does not exist without us, and we do not
> control reality.
>
> I repeat - nothing can be shown to exist independent of humans. "Shown",
> "evidence", "proof" imply humans.
>
> To believe that something exists without evidence, or proof is called
faith.
> I don't have a faith, but apparently you do.

If a skeleton of a person isn't evidence of a person who once existed, I
don't
know the meaning of evidence. To believe nothing exists unless a human says
so
is a humongous leap of faith.







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