[MD] Barfuesserkirche (ZMM & Dewey)

[Jaclyn Engele]

Yeah I saw the thread 'educated versus uneducated' in the archives and it 
slipped into my subconscious when I responded to you.  When I wrote it I 
remember thinking I should be more specific.  I meant I haven't read Dewey. 
Did Pirsig mention something about Dewey in ZMM or Lila?  I do remember 
there being some significance to this but I haven't thought about it in such 
a long time.  I guess I'm also embarassed because I thought I should 
remember or I should have read more, silly, I know.  I've taken some college 
level classes but that's all.  I dropped out of college in large part 
because of the conflict between social vs. intellectual.  I wasn't aware of 
it at the time but hindsight is 20/20.

Funny story: I remember taking a class in Educational Psychology.  My 
professor kept reinforcing the notion that we have to broaden our 
perspective and look at the larger picture.  I was tasked with writing an 
essay on the 'open classroom'.  I was to use one particular book for my 
source.  The book I had was a compilation of different open classroom 
situations.I started the project with a broad perspective already but he was 
so insistent that we go even broader I felt compelled to comply.  So I ended 
up writing about the nature of the compilation as a useful literary device. 
I failed miserably in the task but I passed the class, barely.  I really 
lacked common sense.  I don't know how I would have survived if I hadn't 
stumbled across the MoQ.

I will read up and respond, it sounds intriguing.

Jim Engele





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ARLO J BENSINGER JR" <ajb102 at psu.edu>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Barfuesserkirche (ZMM & Dewey)


> [Jim]
> I intended to lurk for a while but just couldn't resist when I saw Mr. 
> Holden's
> comments.  Too outrageous to be silent.
>
> [Arlo]
> You've seen nothing yet.
>
> [Jim]
> I've noticed an insurgence of Libertarian ideology being forced into 
> mailing
> lists everywhere I go. I think it has to do with the growing realization 
> of the
> death of Republican and Conservative ideology in the US.
>
> [Arlo]
> I wouldn't be so sure. That we will swing back centrist, and then to the 
> left,
> one day is a historical given. But xenophobic fears are not easily 
> overcome,
> and the dialogue is so twisted its hard to imagine we go anywhere but 
> deeper
> into lies, fear and demonizing (from both parties). Yet, I admire your
> optimism.
>
> [Jim]
> I wish I could comment.  I'm fairly uneducated.  I did live in Denmark for 
> a
> year though and I know people who are going through their folk schools. I
> remember reading some brochures about the schools. I discovered Pirsig in 
> 1998
> a year after I left Denmark and I'm still trying to integrate his ideas.
>
> [Arlo]
> That's an interesting choice of words, and quite appropriate in this 
> dialogue.
> What do you mean by "uneducated"? I'm guessing you mean either 
> "unfamiliar"
> (with Dewey and these schools) or "uncertified" (as in formal Academic
> degrees). If you mean the former, I've not read Dewey, or have had any
> familiarity with these schools before a a short while ago. That's why I 
> started
> this thread, so we could have a chance to think about these things 
> anticipating
> the new Granger book. For me, the dialogues center is the question "what 
> is the
> goal of education?". For Dewey it was (seems to be) empowering the 
> individual
> for involvement in "deep democracy". There are strands of cultural
> preservation, a broad range of skills (a la "arete") and preparing the
> individual for her/his part in tending to a social/community oriented 
> life. (To
> Dewey, I believe, a focus soley on economic life underscored an 
> enslavement of
> man to money). Others have proposed "education" should be about "job 
> skills".
> What do you think? If you mean the latter (uneducated as uncertified), I
> wouldn't sweat it. Dan is one of the more educated voices in this forum, 
> and he
> lacks formal certification. Indeed, one of my initial comments about the
> Academy sought to tease apart its role in the "production of intellectual
> patterns" from its role as an "exchange institution, turning intellectual
> patterns into social capital". That you lack the latter, does not mean you 
> lack
> the former.
>
>
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