[MD] Barfuesserkirche (ZMM & Dewey)

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Arlo previously]
and not destroy this thread, which so far has been a useful and interesting
discussion of Dewey, Pirsig and educational philosophy?

[Platt]
Interesting and useful to whom? I thought we were here to discuss the MOQ.

[Arlo]
To me. And apparently to you, hence you are here. And we are here to discuss the
MOQ, but the wonders of technology allow us to separate out those interested in
talking about Dewey, Pirsig and education, from those interested in
nationalistic cheerleading. I mean, I get the whole "smother the dialogue with
rhetoric" mode of thinking, I'm just simply asking you to start a thread where
others who are interested in debating how Morally Righteous we are can join you
in blissful community. Certainly I am not asking you NOT to participate in this
thread, I'm only asking you to stick to the subject heading lest this thread
fall apart prematurely.

[Arlo had asked]
Consider a few of the basic questions. What is the role of the Academy?

[Platt]
Let the free market decide.

[Arlo]
What is the role/purpose of education?

[Platt]
Let the free market decide.

[Arlo]
How should our schools be structured?

[Platt]
Let the free market decide.

[Arlo]
What should be taught?

[Platt]
Let the free market decide.

[Arlo]
Is "No Child Left Behind" a horrible monolithic failure of authoritarian
government to impose "what" we should learn?

[Platt]
Yes. It assures unqualified students will be promoted to higher levels.

[Arlo]
How is a super-imposed authoritarian, government enforced curriculum "letting
the free market decide"? 

[Arlo]
Or is it a brilliant strategy for ensuring all our children develop similar
skills and values?

[Platt]
The public school system in the U.S. is a disaster. 

[Arlo]
No doubt because of them infernal liberals. If only conservatives ran things,
how glorious the system would be.

[Platt]
But of course in your eyes the people are too stupid to know what's good for
their children. They must be told what to do by an educator class.

[Arlo]
Like "No Child Left Behind"? If a parent wants to teach their kids the world is
flat or supported on a giant tortoise, should we allow that? Isn't that the
dreaded "relativism" you worry about? Also, if an economic market determines
the viability of education, won't that eventually lead to education being about
nothing more than job skills? Would that be a good thing? Should we abolish the
school system altogether and tell everyone to home school? Would that be
better?

[Platt]
I propose public schools be privatized with parents given eductional vouchers.
That way Dynamic Quality will be served. If you object, tell us Pirsigians why.

[Arlo]
Why would you think I'm against vouchers? I'm sitting here proposing all kinds
of alternative schools to the current system, all of which so far propose
culturally-situated, open curriculae emphasizing agency and support for the
learner's own path. You're objecting to everything I've said (or ignoring it)
simply because Dewey does not wage your Holy War of Individual v. Collective,
but insists (correctly) that individual agency is dialectically entwined with
collective-social communal activity, and also because he does not place sole
emphasis on economic patterns to define social life. 

For you, from Wikipedia on the DFSs, "Literally translated as "folk high
school," the folkehøjskole is a social education structure without tests or
grades, putting its emphasis not on demonstratable achievement but rather on
communal learning, self-discovery, and learning how to think." Tell us
Pirsigians why you object?