[MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

[Heather Perella]

Hello Ron!  (dmb mentioned at the end of this post)


     [Ron]
>  SA, I hope you do not mind if I jump in on this,

     Please do.

   [Ron]
> Boy, does this strike a chord, This thread I need to
> discuss, very badly, for I have experienced it first
hand, my life
> is centerd on This subject right now. The origins
for my obsession
> with the MOQ.  I have  a heighten "hypervigiliance"
Response to
> bullying...I have spent my adult life overcoming it
and developed 
> advanced methods of dealing with it, I am well
versed in combat 
> methods both mental and physical, I studied martial
Arts in depth.

     Have the martial arts helped you in your
"hypervigilance" response to bullying?  And your
saying you have tried to avoid the dangers of bullying
a lot.  I know at work the only way to deter bullying
is I have had to be the bigger bully.  I have all the
legitimacy, authority, and tools (give them table time
where they do work, send them to Time Out, give them
an early bed, etc...) on my side.  I have other staff
to back me up (to use the lingo of the girls: 
'they've (the staff) got my back).  I guess the only
difference is that I don't start the fighting, but as
staff we are to finish it.

     [Ron]
> employing a lot of your discussion  with
> what I just expierienced, I have a fear and anger
> towards those people
> who exhibit those "qualities" you illustrated..I
> know better than this
> but, I become tired of overlooking their
> Folly. I find myself falling into the trap...I know
> the dark side quite
> well yet I adhere to the light...I try to become the
> valley ....I feel those people you illustrated so
well have
> never expierienced
> true darkness..for how can you truly appreciate
> life, light and joy If
> you have not felt true horror,pain and
> darkness....my problem is my
> wanting to "enlighten" these poor souls but as you
> said I'd only be destroying my true aim...

     How would you be destroying my true aim?  The
enlightenment is planting the seeds that maybe these
girls will notice how well things go for them, and how
much staff leaves them alone when they act properly
without trying to disrupt activities.


     [Ron]
> I endeavor to
> set the example but I
> am increasingly frustrated with this society.., I am
> not endeared to our
> western culture, I see the whites as being afflicted
> with an illness of
> imagining themselves to be Separate from everthing
> therefore They feel
> they can treat this dream in which our souls burn in
>  like a whore.

     I agree with you.  Trying to change everything
from a woodsy experience is what gets me frustrated. 
This is the same as your pointing out that western
culture imagines they are separated from everything. 
They are gun-ho and high and almighty.  They don't
trust personal experiences.  The imagination is hell
sent.  I really believe the imagination is actually
more in tuned with our human-cougar-tree experience
then setting up logical boundaries that try to
universalize everything.  This was the early change in
western civilization from a mythos to a solely human
logos.  This universalizing everything destroys the
character of a human-nonhuman-geography.  It's all
about what a human being thinks or cares about in the
western world.  It's very limited.

   [Case]
> states: "It is an oversimplification of course but
> what motivates us all
> is fear of loss and hope of gain. The trick for the
> behavioral therapist
> is to figure out where the subject's hopes lie." 

     [Ron]
> great point..one I
> need to evaluate myself..right now my fear is those
> like us will be
> wiped from the face of the earth  my hope is that we
> will not.

     We will not survive?  I sometimes wonder what all
the enthusiasm is for trying to come up with what's
the best paradigm for life, when the main input seems
to be coming from what people think.  When I walk in
the woods somehow everything falls into place, life is
grand!  Then I come back and hear all these tedious
details being worked out on how to live, all dictated
by people.  We not only physically have built a human
world world that separates us from the so called
elements, but also, a big habit with this culture is
to be the forces of nature, yet, it's all
anthropomorphizing with no naturopomorphizing. 
There's wildlife management and politics (I'm talking
about the demand of the publics micromanagment by the
government).  Sure need's usually begin these demands,
but it's just so funny.  Manage wildlife, we as people
know what's best for the woods, now.  This is supposed
to be a counter-force for those so called idiots that
destroy nature, yet, we've got to build a human world.
 Hey, I guess that's the only way we'll know
everything about the world - make it totally human,
get rid of these enigmas called animals.  What do they
offer to us anyways?  
     The logic of the human being is structuring the
world as if the human logic is what knows what's best
for everything.  Got a problem - rely on human logic. 
As science is supposed to be just a reflection of
nature, and philosophy is just a reflection of nature,
don't forget to listen to the wind.  The wind is a big
part of life.  The listening to the wind is an
everyday occurrence.  Try to philosophize that!  I
believe it was dmb that said Pirsig came up with a
metaphysics that's not really a metaphysics.  Wouldn't
that be the Way!

I'll stand down for now, but Ron maybe you see what I
see?  I don't know.

Thanks,
SA  


 
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