[MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

[Ron Kulp]

      Have the martial arts helped you in your "hypervigilance" response
to bullying?  And your saying you have tried to avoid the dangers of
bullying a lot.  I know at work the only way to deter bullying is I have
had to be the bigger bully.  I have all the legitimacy, authority, and
tools (give them table time where they do work, send them to Time Out,
give them an early bed, etc...) on my side.  I have other staff to back
me up (to use the lingo of the girls: 
'they've (the staff) got my back).  I guess the only difference is that
I don't start the fighting, but as staff we are to finish it.
(ron)
The martial arts has helped me a great deal in this matter,I too have
used the "being the bigger bully" tactic the typical response is feining
victimhood by the bully, when I was young, finishing the fight and
meeting brutality with even greater brutality worked well(most bullies
are cowards) but as the equation changed, (age, having children, job and
self exploration)I found myself to be in error for "He who fights
monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster,
for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also 
gazes into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche.  true power comes of love
..brutality is easy  "wars do not make one great"-yoda..but some folks
only understand brutality.
 avoidance is a common element of (PTSD) I'm still trying to figure this
all out..I have to be very careful when I'm triggered, I'm 6'5"
And  and built like a line backer I can cause a lot of damage just not
being aware of my surroundings..being a big Indian intimidates people
but not the right people.

 
    " How would you be destroying my true aim?  The enlightenment is
planting the seeds that maybe these girls will notice how well things go
for them, and how much staff leaves them alone when they act properly
without trying to disrupt activities."

(ron)
I'm right with you on this..but my dilema is because I can impose my
wishes should I? The problem is I care.."Force, no matter how concealed,
begets resistance". - Lakota   these things haunt me when I act.

"As science is supposed to be just a reflection of nature, and
philosophy is just a reflection of nature, don't forget to listen to the
wind.  The wind is a big part of life.  The listening to the wind is an
everyday occurrence.  Try to philosophize that!  I believe it was dmb
that said Pirsig came up with a metaphysics that's not really a
metaphysics.  Wouldn't that be the Way!

I'll stand down for now, but Ron maybe you see what I see?  I don't
know."

(ron)
Native American Prayer 

Oh, Great Spirit
Whose voice I hear in the winds,
And whose breath gives life to all the world,
hear me, I am small and weak,
I need your strength and wisdom.
Let me walk in beauty and make my eyes ever behold
the red and purple sunset.
Make my hands respect the things you have
made and my ears sharp to hear your voice.
Make me wise so that I may understand the things
you have taught my people.
Let me learn the lessons you have
hidden in every leaf and rock.
I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother,
but to fight my greatest enemy - myself.
Make me always ready to come to you
with clean hands and straight eyes.
So when life fades, as the fading sunset,
my Spirit may come to you without shame.


(translated by Lakota Sioux Chief Yellow Lark in 1887)
published in Native American Prayers - by the Episcopal Church.




Every animal knows more than you do.
~Nez Perce

I do see what you see, sometimes it twists my heart, thank you so much
for your reply. It is greatly appreciated
-Ron




-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Heather Perella
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:30 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] So cometh MOQ, what next?

Hello Ron!  (dmb mentioned at the end of this post)


     [Ron]
>  SA, I hope you do not mind if I jump in on this,

     Please do.

   [Ron]
> Boy, does this strike a chord, This thread I need to discuss, very 
> badly, for I have experienced it first
hand, my life
> is centerd on This subject right now. The origins
for my obsession
> with the MOQ.  I have  a heighten "hypervigiliance"
Response to
> bullying...I have spent my adult life overcoming it
and developed 
> advanced methods of dealing with it, I am well
versed in combat 
> methods both mental and physical, I studied martial
Arts in depth.

     Have the martial arts helped you in your "hypervigilance" response
to bullying?  And your saying you have tried to avoid the dangers of
bullying a lot.  I know at work the only way to deter bullying is I have
had to be the bigger bully.  I have all the legitimacy, authority, and
tools (give them table time where they do work, send them to Time Out,
give them an early bed, etc...) on my side.  I have other staff to back
me up (to use the lingo of the girls: 
'they've (the staff) got my back).  I guess the only difference is that
I don't start the fighting, but as staff we are to finish it.

     [Ron]
> employing a lot of your discussion  with what I just expierienced, I 
> have a fear and anger towards those people who exhibit those 
> "qualities" you illustrated..I know better than this but, I become 
> tired of overlooking their Folly. I find myself falling into the 
> trap...I know the dark side quite well yet I adhere to the light...I 
> try to become the valley ....I feel those people you illustrated so
well have
> never expierienced
> true darkness..for how can you truly appreciate life, light and joy If

> you have not felt true horror,pain and darkness....my problem is my 
> wanting to "enlighten" these poor souls but as you said I'd only be 
> destroying my true aim...

     How would you be destroying my true aim?  The enlightenment is
planting the seeds that maybe these girls will notice how well things go
for them, and how much staff leaves them alone when they act properly
without trying to disrupt activities.


     [Ron]
> I endeavor to
> set the example but I
> am increasingly frustrated with this society.., I am not endeared to 
> our western culture, I see the whites as being afflicted with an 
> illness of imagining themselves to be Separate from everthing 
> therefore They feel they can treat this dream in which our souls burn 
> in  like a whore.

     I agree with you.  Trying to change everything from a woodsy
experience is what gets me frustrated. 
This is the same as your pointing out that western culture imagines they
are separated from everything. 
They are gun-ho and high and almighty.  They don't trust personal
experiences.  The imagination is hell sent.  I really believe the
imagination is actually more in tuned with our human-cougar-tree
experience then setting up logical boundaries that try to universalize
everything.  This was the early change in western civilization from a
mythos to a solely human logos.  This universalizing everything destroys
the character of a human-nonhuman-geography.  It's all about what a
human being thinks or cares about in the western world.  It's very
limited.

   [Case]
> states: "It is an oversimplification of course but what motivates us 
> all is fear of loss and hope of gain. The trick for the behavioral 
> therapist is to figure out where the subject's hopes lie."

     [Ron]
> great point..one I
> need to evaluate myself..right now my fear is those like us will be 
> wiped from the face of the earth  my hope is that we will not.

     We will not survive?  I sometimes wonder what all the enthusiasm is
for trying to come up with what's the best paradigm for life, when the
main input seems to be coming from what people think.  When I walk in
the woods somehow everything falls into place, life is grand!  Then I
come back and hear all these tedious details being worked out on how to
live, all dictated by people.  We not only physically have built a human
world world that separates us from the so called elements, but also, a
big habit with this culture is to be the forces of nature, yet, it's all
anthropomorphizing with no naturopomorphizing. 
There's wildlife management and politics (I'm talking about the demand
of the publics micromanagment by the government).  Sure need's usually
begin these demands, but it's just so funny.  Manage wildlife, we as
people know what's best for the woods, now.  This is supposed to be a
counter-force for those so called idiots that destroy nature, yet, we've
got to build a human world.
 Hey, I guess that's the only way we'll know everything about the world
- make it totally human, get rid of these enigmas called animals.  What
do they offer to us anyways?  
     The logic of the human being is structuring the world as if the
human logic is what knows what's best for everything.  Got a problem -
rely on human logic. 
As science is supposed to be just a reflection of nature, and philosophy
is just a reflection of nature, don't forget to listen to the wind.  The
wind is a big part of life.  The listening to the wind is an everyday
occurrence.  Try to philosophize that!  I believe it was dmb that said
Pirsig came up with a metaphysics that's not really a metaphysics.
Wouldn't that be the Way!

I'll stand down for now, but Ron maybe you see what I see?  I don't
know.

Thanks,
SA  


 
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