[MD] a haunting

[Ron Kulp]

 SA,
I believe that's what we both see is what Pirsig saw..that
disassociation. Sounds like you are right on the front everyday, I dated
a girl
Who worked in the inner-city school system and a correctional
facility..she had a nervous breakdown, the students were such a problem
that
She spent her time disciplining and not teaching, when she had a few
expelled, they stalked her. It's difficult to not take it home with you.
It becomes psycological warfare, Pirsig mentions "caring"  a craftsman
"cares" about what he's doing he builds that care into the job
Then he discribes "gumption traps", that's what I really dig about
Pirsig some would deem his ability to speak in common terms as "dumbing
It down" but,that ability to really relate on that level holds more
creedance to his words for me anyway.A Gumption trap is a dissruption
In that process. Caring for a child is a demanding task  especially the
first few months there is little time for "self" plus
It's unknown territory if this is your first. Reading became my "woods "
I read Sidhartha by Herman Hess . Which has a message on
Parenting.
-Ron   
  
-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Heather Perella
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 4:47 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: [MD] a haunting

Ron,

     I switched the name of this thread to give a more accurate
description to where this discussion has been heading.

     [Ron] 
> Spiritual Adirondack,
> I realize it is your job to make productive well adjusted citizens of 
> young "delinquent?" women, Having two daughter myself, how do you feel

> the program measures up to your personal beliefs?

     It doesn't.  The program tries, but can't mimic the woods - the
programs too human logos with a side of $.  I hope you understand when I
say woods, I'm talking about, well yeah, the woods, but I'm talking
about a reality where humans are trees and those crows chasing the
red-tailed hawk I saw on the walk today. 
Everything just comes together so nicely.  Dangers are real, and calm
eventful moments are real.  This is one reason I like this job is the
realness.  These events are real, but what I don't like is that it is us
humans making and controlling 99% of the reality (the exact number is
not important but you get my drift). 
I feel alienated or foreign or something when at work.
 I've taken the girls on walks before in the woods (well, only twice in
the past 8 months), but with the problems we're having now, that won't
happen.  I feel a strain, as if I'm being cut off from what I really am
when I go to work.  If things went well, then I guess maybe I wouldn't
be so tense, but their troubled girls and trouble is their middle name.
I really don't know how to explain my personal beliefs very well, but if
you ever find yourself sitting near a creek in the woods and everything
becomes so clear for you - that's where I like to be.  If that can be a
belief then that's my personal belief.  

     [Ron]
> Do you feel most of these girls are simply responding to how they were

> raised ie. Violently?

     I'm sure of it with some.  Also, the society outside of the family
may put more pressure on these girls than the family at times.  That
though can become cyclical and the question is why can't the family be
strong enough to hold off those negative influences in the rest of
society.  But then again, this culture is a strong one, so...

     [Ron]
> Or are thses average kids who do need a hard lesson?

     We have in general two kinds of girls that show up on our
doorsteps, so to speak.  We have the runaways and the aggressors.  The
runaways might be average kids looking for a way out of something.  We
tend not to come down on them too hard.  No need to, they usually do
what you ask of them.  In some cases these runaways try to run from the
facility, and we have to watch them closely.  They might be thinking
their between a rock and a hard place.  The aggressors, though, well
their not very average. 
Something happened along the way that made them aggressive, demanding,
and have an attitude that is just plain rude.  These are the ones that
nobody wants to be around, and we're (staff) are just waiting for the
trouble to begin.  They'll act out and be defiant for the sake of
defiance.  Yet, their defiance is not a peace march.  They are battle
ready.  And this battle mode is so opposite of how I've been my whole
life.  My dad called me the peacemaker of the house. 
About a decade ago all's I did was camp, walk in the woods, and have a
garden.  I didn't have a job, and I literally woke up everyday and went
straight outside after an early breakfast.  I saw the sunrise for that
year and a half, oh, 80% of the time.  Sun down just as much.  Not
counting cloudy days.  If it rained, I still went outside for some time,
getting soaked, and finding a way to make a fire.  I made so many fires.

I love a fire and the woods.  Making a fire was... oh, I miss those
days.  I've been trying to get back into this habit at times.  My new
schedule is helping.  Now with a baby, new paths are being made by my
footsteps, but I hope to incorporate all of these old habits into my
present habits.  I won't be going out into the woods as I did that one
time, but the more I do, the better I feel.  I feel sick if I don't.  I
even have another name, but it's not important.  Talk to me about your
daughters.  And if you could, talk about the haunting you mentioned in
the other post.  I know I have a gnawing on me almost everyday I wake
up, and a haunting might be the best way to describe this gnawing I
have.  Just noticing that it is a haunting, clears 'things' up for me.
I'm glad you put it that way.  

Thanks,
SA


 
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