[MD] Crystallising Chaos.

[Jos Laycock]

Ah but then again the "ignorance" bit in Platt's thread complicates things.
In "ignorance" does something "exist" or not?

Where the term ignorance is defined as an absence of any type of knowing 
(valuing) I interpret the MOQ to say that it does not.

If chaos is pure ignorance, (360 mutual ignorance of values and concepts) it 
is the same as static values that are entirely unrelated to one another. Or 
where static values are so unrelated to anything that they cannot really be 
described as static.....

If DQ is the same as essence (and Ham is right on what essence is(n't)) then 
those things that are in a state of ignorance are outside of existence.

Things become static then at the point that they are "known", but where 
"knowing" includes all classes of awareness/experience and manifest at all l 
levels.

Is there anything really unusual in saying that unknown things are 
uncertain?





>From: "Jos Laycock" <jos5 at hotmail.co.uk>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] Crystallising Chaos.
>Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:58:22 +0000
>
>Perhaps, but Platt, this argument implies an objective reality, no?
>You suggest that our language defines chaos as any state of being with
>complexity beyond the perceptive abilities of the observer?
>
>I would suggest that it is "safer" to agree upon a conceptual difference
>between observed events that appear chaotic and the implicit definition we
>use for what the concept means.
>
>In the MOQ I see most things as objectively unknowable (not definable as
>absolute truths) to any observer, so chaos is hardly unusual in that
>respect.
>
>Now I come to think about it its a rather definition defying concept in 
>SOM:
>As soon as you desribe it as something you give it form and as a concept it
>becomes patterned, ceasing to be chaotic.
>Ie all definitions, are by definition wrong, now where have I heared that
>before?
>
>
>
> >From: "Platt Holden" <pholden at davtv.com>
> >Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >Subject: Re: [MD] Crystallising Chaos.
> >Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:35:15 -0400
> >
> >I haven't been following this thread as closely as I should, so if this
> >question has been asked and answered, please refer me to the
> >appropriate post.
> >
> >The question: Instead of chaos being thought of as a state of being,
> >rather could it be defined as whatever is too complex for us humans to
> >know?
> >
> >The following from Case seems to suggest the answer may be yes.
> >
> >"As the rain falls faster the osprey flies home to nest, the
> >grasshoppers hop away satisfied and the surface of the post becomes
> >INCREASINGLY DIFFICULT TO CALCULATE. Harmonies are broken.
> >Chaos ensues." (caps added for emphasis)
> >
> >Beyond our ability to calculate, chaos reigns. In other words, chaos is
> >another word for our ignorance. What appears to us as chaos may indeed
> >by finely structured, organized and purposeful. We're just too limited -
> >- physically, mentally or spiritually -- to perceive it.
> >
> >I wonder. When it comes to chaos, we may be like the fish who when
> >asked how he liked the ocean answered, "What ocean?"
> >
> >Regards,
> >Platt
> >
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