[MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters

[Platt Holden]

> [Arlo]
> Would you obey an order to rape?

No, nor would any American military authority issue such an order, 
unlike the Islamofascists or other third-world savages.   

> [Platt]
> As for insipid insinuations, you insinuated that I would drop gas
> pellets on Jews.
> 
> [Arlo]
> I insinuated that "blind obedience" to the state is what led to dropping
> gas pellets on Jews. There is a time when good men must say "no" to
> immoral orders.

Define "immoral orders."

> [Platt]
> I hear the same sort of insinuation from radical left-wingers. Putting
> the two together isn't difficult.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Oh, yes, I forgot about them dreaded "radical left-wingers". I better
> check under my bed tonight, just in case.

Maybe you'll find Rosie O'Donnel or Barbara Streisand. Speaking of 
giant intellects :-) 

> [Arlo previously]
> You apparently disagree, believing that our soldier's should be "blindly
> obedient". History makes obvious the result of your way of thinking.
> 
> [Platt]
> I repeat, in battle, yes. Specify the "obvious result" in history.
> 
> [Arlo]
> The Inquisition. Pol Pot. The genocidal actions against the Indians and
> the Jews. Those are the obvious historical examples when men blindly
> obey social static structures.

None of the above occurred "in battle." They were deliberate policies 
of the authorities in question, like the current Islamofascist policy 
to kill all Americans and wipe Israel off the map.
   
> [Platt]
> The obvious result I see is that America is still free, and you ought to
> get down on your knees every day and thank those soldiers, sailors,
> airmen and marines who have protected and preserved your right to speak
> your mind freely, among other freedoms you enjoy at the intellectual
> level.
> 
> [Arlo]
> You think I don't admire, or are not grateful, to the sacrifices of
> those who preserve(d) my freedoms? Oh, I forgot, we are in right-wing
> radio world, where the slightest suggestion that there are times when
> even America can act immorally is met with such ludicrous nonsense like
> this. I tell you what though, amigo, I get down on my knees every day
> and thank those who would say "no", that there are times, even if its
> only in extreme cases, when serving morality is not simply serving the
> state.

You seem to have an inordinate guilt complex about being an American a 
la Noam Chomsky. Do you think we ought to pay reparations to blacks? 

> [Platt]
> Abu Graib was a prison, not a battlefield. Can't you tell the
> difference?
> 
> [Arlo]
> So, there are conceivable orders you, as a US soldier, would decline if
> you were stationed at Abu Graib?

As a soldier doing guard duty or patrolling the San Francisco 
waterfront as an MP, sure. But, in battle, no. Anyway, the hi-jinks   
at Abu Graib was vastly overplayed by the leftist media.

> [Arlo previously]
> All you'd know is that your were ordered to kill 140,000 innocent
> people. Sorry, my moral fiber wouldn't take that. Glad to hear you would
> so willing press that button and exterminate 140,000 people just because
> you had hopes that it MIGHT end the war.
> 
> [Platt]
> You're damn straight I would press the button to kill those who, if they
> had the button, would kill me.
> 
> [Arlo]
> You're sure that all of those 140,000 people would kill you? How
> omniscent of you.

The Japs would have defended their country to the last man, woman and 
child. They were brainwashed to believe the Americans would torture 
them. Read up on your history of the invasion of Okinawa.

> [Arlo previously]
> Or is killing 140,000 people in hopes of ending a war only moral when we
> doit? I know your answer, of course, and I could rephrase it already as
> "it is moral BECAUSE WE do it".
> 
> [Platt]
> You repeat what you have said before. You see no moral difference
> between America and Imperial Japan. Hard to believe, but there it is for
> all to see and shake their heads in wonderment.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Oh drop the idiotic "no moral difference" crap, Platt. You're not Rush
> Limbaugh and this is not the EIB network. No one else buys this insipid
> accusation.

So, your views are based what everyone else buys? How independent and 
critical thinking of you. You blindly fall in step with the postmodern, 
left-wing moral relativism, moral equivalence crowd.  

> [Platt]
> It was Pirsig who said insulting people was evil. You object to his
> label?
> 
> [Arlo]
> I object to those who cry about taking what they so readily dish out.

Evil must meet evil on its own terms.

> [Platt]
> It is not immoral to fight to protect the American Consititution from
> those who would overthrow it.
> 
> [Arlo]
> 50 points for the right-wing distortion supreme! I never said it was
> "immoral to fight". Did I? No. But, tell you what, I'll give you 10
> bonus points if you keep repeating this and try to convince everyone its
> what I said, eh? 

I'm glad you agree you would fight to protect America from its enemies. 
My doubts arose from your refusal to obey orders in battle.

> [Platt]
> As Goldwater rightly put it, "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no
> vice." 
> 
> [Arlo]
> So, if we start an ebola outbreak in Iraq "to win the war", you'd find
> no objections to this?

Not smart. Too easy for the enemy to retaliate.   

> [Arlo previously]
> Yes, how ironic that the "Marxist" is arguing for disobedience to the
> state, in favor of individual morality. And the right-winger is arguing
> for blindly killing 140,000 "for the greater good". As for the
> absolutes, its a dead argument. The whole "there are no absolutes is an
> absolute" has already been discussed. I love paradox.
> 
> [Platt]
> It is indeed ironic. You wouldn't be arguing for disobedience to the
> state if immoral forced redistribution of income was the issue.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Oh, biggie! 100 points for the use of "immoral forced redistribution of
> income" to talk about "taxes" (Lakoff readers, take note). Let's
> remember how "immoral" it was the next time we drive on a road, or take
> a book out of the library, or call 911, or need EMT services, or use a
> public clinic, or hike in a public forest, or fish in any of our lakes
> or streams. Yes, let's. Taxation is a privilege I am happy to pay for
> the wonderful infrastructure we all enjoy. There are things I'd change,
> sure (abolishing income tax would be first), but taxation as "immoral
> redistribution of wealth". That's just right-wing nonsense.

Oh? I don't think you've ever denounced "From each according to his 
abilities, to each according to his needs." Aren't you like your left 
wing friends in favor of raising taxes on the "wealthy?"

> [Platt]
> And funny in that although you believe that absolutes don't exist you
> call on them with regularity, using "all," "any" and "every" in wildly
> absolute general statements. Whatever happened to your objection to
> black and white absolutist dichotomies and generalizations? Methinks you
> speak with forked tongue.
> 
> [Arlo]
> There are times when one is forced to deal with the paradox of language.
> So what? We, others, there've been threads on this before. If you wanna
> start one up again, be my guest. I'll meet you there.
 
I find it amusing that you change from one core belief to another 
whenever it suits your agenda.