[MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters

[Laycock, Jos (OSPT)]

Hi Platt:

The non biological urges,
I can't suggest any that you wont be able to attribute to biology, but you
can't suggest any human actions that I won't atribute to biology in
response. (not your own, something you abserve in another). If I choose the
right definition of "biological urge" and make it species specific then it
will always explain any obseved human behaviour.

Turing tests,
Of course very familiar, but it is a subjective test, there are turing
machines already in existence that can fool a fair percentage of questioners
in double blind experiments, if you put the machine in front of a
particularily dumb human or one with a poor grasp of the language tested
they will stand no chance at all. The concept is somewhat flawed in this
respect as it makes no provision to test the observer. Assume that a turing
machine is created that convinces all questioners, it still may not be
concious, you can never really prove it for certain. Equally you may very
well create a fully concious AI that has no way to communicate with you,
assuming faliure you disasemble it and start again.

I'm off to see how much PCP it will take for me to start liking Gordon
Brown.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
> Sent: 28 September 2006 20:32
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters
> 
> 
> Quoting "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)" <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK>:
> 
> >  Platt:
> > But can we agree that what someone thinks about art, business or 
> > > politics is not
> > > dependent on inorganic or biological patterns? In other 
> > > words, no tinkering 
> > > with brain chemistry can turn a socialist into a conservative?  
> > 
> > No sorry, we can't agree on that one, memories, thoughts, 
> and beliefs,
> > permeate all static levels thus they are dependent on all 
> static levels, its
> > true that in the brain there is a great deal of redundancy 
> and so patterns
> > are very stable, addition of one neurotransmitter (or 
> artificial analogue)
> > over a short timeframe may affect the function of a 
> particular region or
> > cell type but it has no profound efect as the pattern is preserved
> > throughout a whole range of other brain machinery/chemistry.
> > Long term exposure to drugs has been shown to affect 
> personality however,
> > especially "dirty" drugs that include many different active 
> compounds.
> > Traumatic brain injuries also frequently result in 
> pesonality shifts.
> > To effect the kind of specific changes you refer to above 
> would require a
> > highly sophisticated nano scale targeted drug 
> administration pattern way
> > beyond what modern medicine is capable of, but that's not 
> to say it's
> > impossible.
> 
> Well, maybe you're right. I do notice that those who imbibe 
> in hallucinatory
> drugs tend to be liberals. :-) As for as things being 
> impossible, I suppose
> nothing we can conceive of is impossible. But as far as I 
> know, the connection
> between brain chemistry and who we vote for is tenuous at best.
> 
> > Platt on animals:
> > "since all their choices
> > > are governed by biological instincts"
> > 
> > You state this as a fact to support the assertion that 
> animals have no free
> > will, but I'm sure you can see that its circular.
> > I can equally well say that animals have free will because 
> they undertake
> > many actions outside of those brought about by biological urges.
> 
> Can you suggest some examples?
> 
> > The animal question, will not be resolved, they are 
> certainly limited in
> > their ability to explain their motives to either of us so 
> there seems little
> > point discussing. My experience with various species is 
> that animals can be
> > highly sentient and display a range of traits that others 
> regard as solely
> > the preserve of humans. You have a diffent view and thats 
> fine, but both
> > arguments are self fulfilling, to me its a question better 
> resolved by
> > obsevation of life than thought experiment. Afterall no 
> test can really
> > demonstrate that another human is not an simply a complex 
> automaton (perhaps
> > we all are).
> 
> Have you heard of the Turing test?
> 
> Platt
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
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