[MD] The Anti-entropic Miopic

[Case]

Mark 03-02-07:
[snip]
What i think i should be reaching for is the suggestion that biological life
rides on the tide of thermal entropy to do things thermal entropy at the
inorganic level cannot do? (non-carbon based chemistry).
Perhaps a good way of looking at this would be to suggest that biological
life seizes entropy and directs it for it's own ends?
The result of those ends is an ever more precise utilisation of entropy
itself?
This seems to accord with the moq's suggestion that biological patterns use
the patterns of the lower level.
But you have already pointed this out Case. I should have listened to you.
Having said this, i don't feel you fully appreciate the significance of the
way in which thermal entropy is being utilised?
The very forms of utilisation demarcate a dividing line between the
biological and the inorganic.
Maybe the laws of thermodynamics will change to accommodate new ideas?

[Case]
I think you should think about this a while. I have not been very accurate
in describing entropy. I was working around the points you were making and
taking liberties in the process. But I would say you are getting close. I
have always thought your stuff with the sweet spot and coherence and all are
close they just need to shift up a notch. What you just said here about
boundaries. Boundaries are where things get interesting. For example what is
the boundary between the inorganic and biological. I would like to call it
carbon chemistry but not all organic chemistry is living. Viruses are seen
as the most primitive life forms but they are little more than DNA and
protein. Any time you draw a distinction the edges are fuzzy.

Mark 03-02-07:
[snip]
Other forms of entropy have been advocated - with varying degrees of tility 
- and it's a contentious area.
Those who won't entertain it simply deny any use at all - no argument
necessary.
I think there is something in new perspectives on entropy but i've been
sloppy while accusing you of sloppy thinking.
Sorry about that mate.
 
Not sure if i'm short sighted or seeing over the horizon?

[Case] 
No problem at all. Believe me I understand.

Many years ago I read Jeremy Rifkin's book Entropy. I remember thinking,
"this is Wrong!" Wrong in a moral as well as actual sense. 

This is called denial; then came anger. Then I tried to figure a way out of
it. Then I was depressed. It took years but I followed Kubler-Ross to the
letter and you know, it's not so bad. 

What's bad is that, all this original source... where did it all come
from... seeking after a unity... Perfect order is a single point where all
is one and before that point? ...Nothing. From perfect order to perfect
disorder; ashes to ashes.

But these things are really only troublesome if you insist on thinking in
"ultimate" terms. Ultimately, schmultimately! It has been at least 13
billion years since the point of perfect order. The estimated time until
perfect disorder is something like 10 with 150 zeros after it.

Life as we know it took 4 billion years to get here. That is a lot of time. 

All we really need to know is that it has been this way a really long time
and it is not going anywhere soon. As long as the inorganic level remains
static the biological level has something to play with.