[MD] CO2 catcher

Tue Feb 13 07:12:08 PST 2007

Hi Ian et al

I actually think Branson has a point

Seems to me that although trees are evidently effective CO2 traps they don't do it all that fast. Whilst it may be very nice eco warrior rhetoric to say "plant a million trees" we would have to plant trees at a faster rate than we are burning fuels, and given the growth rates involved compared to the rates of combustion (in which I include respiration) it just isn't going to work. 

If we accept that the tiger economies will continue to expand their industrial programs and that the rest of us just cant galvanise ourselves to really try at all, then we have to come up with a technology based fix, even if its only a contingency. Its no good being personally green and publicising green issues whilst we watch the planet burn around us. Not to say that these endeavours are not worthwhile, but Branson is quite right that we need a serviceable plan B that can be brought to effect more quickly.  

Looking at it in terms of energetics: You put energy into low energy waste substrates to yield high energy fuels, allow the reac to run the other way and you get lots of waste and lots of energy evolved. Our problem is our overall energy requirement, trying to drive low energy state waste products back into fuels just increases our overall energy needed. 

My solutions would be to either use GM biological processes to do the redux bit through photosynthesis but in some highly catalysed industrial way, where the system is able for example to operate way outside of the conditions normally required for life (and thus much faster), or
massively increase the amount of energy we generate through nuclear, solar, wind and geothermal to the extent that there is a sufficient surplus clean energy generated which we are able to "spend" on carbon absorption factories.  

This sounds heretical and completely counterintuitive, but we must fix the problem now at the same time that we address its causes. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of ian glendinning
> Sent: 13 February 2007 14:04
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] CO2 catcher
> 
> 
> Hi Mark, (Steve H mentioned)
> 
> As Blake said "A green an pleasant land"
> 
> I have no doubt MoQ provides that consistent view that we are all part
> of one co-evolved biosphere (one co-evolved cosmos in fact).
> 
> If you look at almost any "interest group" forum I think you will find
> the topics of the day are sustainability, and turning away from
> consumerism and "unfair" global trading as the main source of so many
> other issues, and education in one form or another as a major issue
> underlying all of these. Of course many scientists believe we've
> already blown the sustainability option from our terrestrial
> perspective, and see the major priority to find alternative habitable
> worlds - but that may just be a plea for space-project funding ;-)
> 
> Steve Hannon, pricked our pomposity by suggesting we don't take
> ourselves too seriously, but I say we should be asking ourselves what,
> other than tending our own garden, making personal choices to "turn
> away" from consumerism; what should we be doing specifically with the
> MoQ itself.
> 
> Regards
> Ian
> 
> On 2/13/07, Squonkriff at aol.com <Squonkriff at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi SA,
> > Thanks for that.
> > England used to be one large forest with a remarkable biosystem.
> > I was thinking we could do with getting back to living in 
> harmony with that
> > rather than plaster over it with towns and cities.
> > This brings up another aspect of CO2 catching: Population control.
> > The Earth can't sustain human proliferation on the scale we 
> are  imposing.
> > A shift toward a value centred view of life rather than a 
> capitalist one  has
> > never been more desperate.
> > I feel the moq supports this position; the biosphere is so 
> fundamental to a
> > quality Earth it should be one of our greatest imperatives 
> to live within our
> > means.
> >
> > Love,
> > Mark
> >
> > In a message dated 13/02/2007 02:22:18 GMT Standard Time,
> > spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com writes:
> >
> > [Mark]
> > > I hear Richard Branson is offering £10M to  anyone
> > > who can invent an effective CO2 catcher?
> > > Here's mine:  Trees! And plenty of 'em.
> > > May i have my £10M now please?
> >
> > Great idea, and we'd have to stop cutting them,
> > too.   Tree farms would help replenish this raw
> > material for humans instead of  whole old growth
> > forests where many others creatures live.  Where  just
> > invading their home and burning.  Human population  is
> > big.  Well, anyways, I don't think having more trees
> > is that  easy though.  I think you realize this though.
> > Here's one of the lists  with different charts and
> > models found at one of the website Poot gave  called
> > "IPCC Special Report on Carbon dioxide Capture  and
> > Storage".  It is the first group given at the  website.
> >
> > Here's the  website:
> > http://www.ipcc.ch/present/graphics.htm
> >
> > thanks.
> >
> > SA
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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