[MD] science, religion and culture

[Khaled Alkotob]

Gav

What a post. I read it and reread it and thought long and hard.

I was born 150 miles from where Jesus (pbuh) was born. Watching the
American/western Christmas unfold left me asking all kinds of questions.
Your post hits the nail on the head.
Yeah, how is a Hawaiian supposed to sing and enjoy "I am dreaming of a
white Christmas"? How we have imposed a western ideology/culture on
places that would feel no connection whatsoever to the celebration at
hand. Even religions themselves tend to have a culture of their own
depending on the language, and here lies the crux.


eventually, religion evolves to meet the cultural and linguistic demands
of society, add commercialism to that and you have a mess.

You hit on a fundamental issue.

Khaled

[gav ] 
hey all,
 the BIG problem with religion in the west is that it
> is divorced from the cultural landscape. well of
> course it is: the west has no real culture to speak
> of.
> 
> as has happened in the US, australia and most
> everywhere else the God fearing white toss pots went,
> the indigenous cultures were suppressed,
> misunderstood, regarded as superstitious nonsense
> (this view was and is SHARED by the scientific and the
> theistic....my uncle is a catholic professor of
> physics at oxford. science v religion is not the war
> some think it is, most times they both reinforce SOM).
> 
> culture is misunderstood by most whites. culture is
> rooted in place. culture is connection to place and to
> memory and the memory is in the place. without this
> there simply is no culture...no living culture.
> 
> most whites probably think culture is opera or ballet
> or theatre etc when these are a *spectacular*
> experience (very SOM). the passive consumption of such
> stuff may still hold some vestigial mythopoetic power
> but it leads nowhere. it is a tease, a taster of
> something that once was our daily bread, wine and
> song...our very belonging ness. now all we might feel
> is the poignancy of this loss, this absence... if we
> are alive enough and the art is good enough.
> 
> if you have no connection to place, to the land, then
> you have no connection to each other and you have no
> culture. how to reconnect? face the shameful memories
> of our 'cultural' imperialism (oxymoron if ever there
> was), atone and then learn from those we raped (in
> every sense of the word). we have to look at the world
> as it is, not as science or religion would have us
> look at it. we have to see with the heartmind not the head.
> 
> good science and religion can take you to the brink of
> this departure point but they can do no more. leave
> them where they belong, in the rear. heart first, head
> second. who has fallen in love? really. such that
> absolutely nothing else matters save the adored one,
> the divine made flesh: the goddess incarnate. an
> absolutely brave and foolish act that is rewarded with
> the world: the living world. this love spills over as
> it is limitless. it spills over and renews and creates
> the world. 
> 
> science and religion are knock-offs; they are the
> readers digest of spiritual knowledge, which is to say
>  intellectual knowledge of the higest degree. i would
> rather concentrate on the original version before me:
> alive, terrible, beautiful, powerful, wise, loving and
> often hilarious. the living world is the most profound
> thing we can read. and if we don't then we lose, again
> and again...we lose that connection, that belonging,
> that matrix that holds us together in love and not
> fear: culture. for in its absence a more nefarious
> matrix is born: The Giant.......but that's a story for
> another time.
> 
> best to you all
> gav
> 
> 
> 
> 
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