[MD] Food for Thought

[Dan Glover]

Hello everyone

>From: Laird Bedore <lmbedore at vectorstar.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] Food for Thought
>Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 09:54:16 -0500
>
>
> > [Dan]
> > Hi Laird
> >
> > Like I said, it all sounds like great fun. I'm curious... you say you 
>"met"
> > these people. In person? And how do you know they are who they say they 
>are?
> >
> >
>[Laird]
>Yep, I've met countless "online people" in person. People in various
>cities, states, countries even. Artists, architects, accountants,
>chemists, nurses, at least one CEO (admittedly of a software company),
>machinists, middle managers, police officers, Starbucks clerks and
>facility maintenance workers. It's not hard to tell who's who when
>meeting people once you've developed a sense of their personality.
>Imagine if we (of MD) all sat down in a room and started talking without
>identifying ourselves... Within a few minutes we'd have an awful good
>idea of who's who. Heaven forbid Platt and Case got started on politics,
>they might stand out like sore thumbs! :)

[Dan]
Interesting. So you're saying in your experience everyone is pretty honest 
as to what they say they do. That seems to contradict the Turkle article 
Arlo referred us to. I simply haven't had the experience of meeting anyone 
in person that I've met online. So I defer to you.

>
> >> [Laird]
> >> One way of looking at these games:
> >> Each game can be seen as a microcosm of systems theory... They promote
> >> learning the inroads in any system, and practice makes perfect.
> >>
> > [Dan]
> > I beg to disagee on that. Practice does not make perfect, only perfect
> > practice. And if you know what perfect practice is, I doubt you'll be
> > playing games.
> >
> >
>[Laird]
>I'm surprised you dug in on the phrase 'practice makes perfect'... if
>anything it's more meaningless than it is false. Its use pointed at the
>spirit of the phrase, not the literal content. Consistent to cliches is
>the crap-factor of their literal content (part of their attraction, 
>indeed)!

[Dan]
I tend to agree with you. But why tout it as an advantage to playing RPG's? 
Aren't you making my point for me?

>
>
> >> [Laird]
> >> Parallels to office politics, academia, social circles, etc etc can be
> >> easily and accurately made. Understanding and manipulating the complex
> >> overlap of rules is good critical thinking exercise. Coordinating a
> >> group of different 'people' with different specialities to reach a
> >> common and often complex goal is a challenge, and many find it
> >> envigorating. Perhaps their day jobs or schooling are unfulfilling in
> >> this regard so they play a game to fill the need instead. Or they do it
> >> for the social aspects, or the sheer "escape value", or all of the 
>above.
> >>
> > [Dan]
> > I think many people find themselves in unfulfilling positions so they do
> > what people in that situation do: they indulge... be it alcohol, drugs, 
>tv,
> > games, whatever they can do to take away the sense of hopelessness that
> > tends to creep in. Myself, I indulge too, in reading and writing. I see
> > Quality in those endeavors.
> >
> >
>[Laird]
>There are different strokes for different folks!  I think it just as bad
>to ignore the 'game' aspect of our modern culture as it is the literary
>aspect... Whatever aspects we ignore we choose to be blind to. I see
>Quality in experience in general. When enough people share the same
>attraction to a particular experience, a testament to its value has been
>made. People can sometimes be misled or outright wrong in their
>principles (the hippie revolution, suicide cults) but nonetheless an
>attraction that strong merits inquiry. Certainly not every strong
>attraction is a negative one.

[Dan]
Sure. I think my problem lies in the addiction that builds from playing 
RPG's. As a society we limit addictive vices like gambling and alcohol to 
adults yet we think nothing of allowing our children to dive into the 
internet headfirst.

Using your analogy I could say that because I've never been a herion addict 
I am ignoring a part of our culture. I am blind to that part of experience. 
I have no interest. It is (for me) the same with games.

I've played games. Lots of games. Like I used to watch tv all the time. I 
grew up watching tv. It was the babysitter. I don't know when it happened 
exactly but it occurred to me (one day I suppose) that I was wasting a 
terrific amount of time doing nothing.

Anyway, it appears I am becoming side tracked here and I apologise. As you 
say, whatever turns one's crank.

>
>
> >> [Laird]
> >> Such games offer a 'sandbox' for testing all sorts of scenarios. Say
> >> you're unsure if you'd make a good team leader. Try leading a team
> >> in-game and see how you do. Mix it up, try different strategies.
> >> Especially for kids it's a good way to try their hand at various social
> >> and thought experiments without any real risk of screwing something up.
> >> Good learning tool.
> >>
> > [Dan]
> > My son is addicted to RPG's as are his sons. The boys would rather play
> > those games than do anything else. Literally. My oldest grandson asked 
>me
> > what games I play online. I told him none. He said, well what do you do
> > then? And he was serious! To be honest, I don't think it is a good thing 
>but
> > they aren't my children.
> >
> >
>[Laird]
>The frequency of cultural shift is mind-boggling these days...

[Dan]
There are (still) good ways to spend one's time and poor ways to spend one's 
time and as a parent one seems obliged to guide their children in the right 
direction.

>
>
> > [Dan]
> > My granddaughter on the other hand will have nothing to do with games. 
>She
> > is a writer. We exchange emails all the time. I never hear from the boys
> > though. They are too busy playing games.
> >
> > Thank you for your comments,
> >
> > Dan
> >
>[Laird]
>... and the increase in cultural heterogeny within a 'group' is equally
>mind-boggling. It reminds me of watching a bunch of excited particles as
>they prepare for a state change.
>
>Given time, they'll all find their own middle way. Time, like water, is
>good at rounding edges.

[Dan]
Perhaps.

Thank you for your comments,

Dan