[MD] Mystics and Brains

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting Case <Case at iSpots.com>:

> > [Case]
> > Now if you could return the favor and explain how ideas can occur in the
> > absence of nerves and chemistry, I would be very grateful.
> 
> [Platt]
> That's easy. I refer you to Plato who argued that ideas are transcendent
> entities.
> No less a light than Roger Penrose agrees.
> 
> [Case]
> Since Plato died before anyone knew very much about nerves and brains I
> think it is safe to say he had nothing to say on the matter.

I think it's safe to say he regarded the brain as necessary for human 
consciousness.

> Penrose is a mathematical physicist so if you would care to explain why you
> think he supports your view or even what your view is that would be nice.

My view is that of Plato's and Penrose's, namely, that important ideas are 
transcendent entities. To quote Penrose, "Recall my proposal that consciousness,
in essence, is the 'seeing' of a necessary truth; and that it may represent some
actual contact with Plato's world of ideal mathematical concepts." From "The 
Emperor's New Mind," pp. 445-46

> > [Case]
> > Since the MoQ is all about patterns of value it is subject to the same 
> > difficulty. Such events are by their nature uncommon and thus not a 
> > serious challenge to either system.
> 
> [Platt]
> Oh I don't know. A pattern is a pattern no matter how fleeting. Especially
> Dynamic ones. Anyway, an uncommon event is precisely what seriously
> challenges any system. For example, the uncommon event of Galileo looking
> through a telescope changed the world.  
> 
> [Case]
> While spatial patterns are fleeting, they would seem particularly irrelevant
> to this discussion. We are looking for patterns that reoccur in time. A
> thing happening once is not a pattern. What makes the origin of life
> interesting is that it becomes a pattern the reproduces across time. The
> invention of the telescope is interesting because it allows a new set of
> patterns to be observes repeatedly. 
> 
> I think science thrives on these kinds of events and certainly is not
> threatened by them.

We disagree about an event happening once not being a pattern. The place kick
that beat Chargers not only had a pattern, but one of considerable value to 
the Patriots. Science, as I've repeatedly stated, has little to say about
such non-repetitive events and consequently misses a lot of life's meaning
and magic. But, that's an ax to grind on another day perhaps.




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