[MD] Mystics and Brains

[Case]

[Platt]
My view is that of Plato's and Penrose's, namely, that important ideas are
transcendent entities. To quote Penrose, "Recall my proposal that
consciousness, in essence, is the 'seeing' of a necessary truth; and that it
may represent some actual contact with Plato's world of ideal mathematical
concepts." From "The Emperor's New Mind," pp. 445-46

[Case]
As I have mentioned several times it seems to me that Plato's project was in
some sense to add meaning to Euclid and Pythagoras. His realm of the ideal
is clearly a reference to the "perfection" of mathematical constructions
like points planes and solids as compared to their imperfect manifestations
in the world of shadow.

I think Penrose is pointing toward this as well. But I thought in the book
you mention Penrose was mainly arguing against those who seek to model
organic sentient behavior in terms of computer processing. I am not sure how
either of these allows for the conclusion that consciousness can exist
outside of natural processes.

[Platt]
We disagree about an event happening once not being a pattern. The place
kick that beat Chargers not only had a pattern, but one of considerable
value to the Patriots. Science, as I've repeatedly stated, has little to say
about such non-repetitive events and consequently misses a lot of life's
meaning and magic. But, that's an ax to grind on another day perhaps.

[Case]
A place kick in a football games follows not only the pattern of rules set
forth by Newtonian physic but the rules laid down by the National Football
Leagues. Any value a particular kick might have to Patriot fans can also be
specified in terms of social attitudes and a host of other factors all of
which lend themselves nicely to study by various branches of science.

In the sense you are using it here any event is a one time event.

[Platt]
I agree we murder to dissect by analysis. But, explaining beauty has a long
history in philosophy. It comes under the heading of aesthetics. Whether
Rage Against the Machine (who?) qualifies is another matter altogether.

[Case]
Perhaps you could offer an example of a theory of esthetics that does not
murder by dissection. Or one that enhances our understanding of beauty in
ways that science does not. As for Rage, I date myself a bit since they
broke up several years ago. In any event I doubt if you would like them any
more than I care for pretentious piano pieces. But there's esthetics for
you.