[MD] Mystics and Brains

[Micah]

Ham

Things are; what and how they are is within us, not without us.

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ham Priday
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:43 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Mystics and Brains



Hi Case, Platt --


 [Platt]:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, you seem to be saying nothing
> can exist outside of man's (or a sufficiently complex robot's)
> mental processes.  In other words, you favor philosophic
> Idealism. Otherwise, if physical processes can exist
> independently of man, why not relationships we call ideas?

[Case]:
> No, I said ideas like mathematics can't exist without someone
> to think them.  I assume that mathematical relationships
> expressed in nature would continue to exist until someone
> else came along able to think them. Man arises from
> the physical processes, thinking arises from man.

How are relationships of any kind "expressed in nature"?   Geometric,
mathematical, physical, and all other relations are the intellect's
interpretation of differentiated existence.  It is WE (the subjects) who
express things (the objects) and their relationships.  Your assertion "Man
arises from the physical processes, thinking arises from man" makes
conscious awareness a subset of physical processes, whereas the reverse is
true: objects, events, and relations are products of man's cognizance.  I
think that epistemology is supported by Pirsig's theory of experiential
reality.

If there is a universal "template" for evolution in time and distribution in
space, it is intrinsic to Value-sensibility -- the potential to become
aware.  Bo Slutvik is absolutely right when he insists that cognizance (or
what you loosely term "intellect") is "the value of the S/O divide."

Best regards,
Ham


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