[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu>:


> [Arlo]
> You are arguing from (surprise) a dichotomous position. Either a God did it, or
> it was all an "oops". I've already offered a third. Design emerges from Quality
> interactions. There are no turtles at all.

Where did "Quality interactions" come from? Oh yes, now I remember. We go lucky.
 
> In the "God" teleology, the dinosaurs were either an "oops" or made just for us
> to have oil. In the "oops" teleology, the cells accidentally made a dinosaur.
> In the "AHA!" teleology, the cells, following DQ, collectivized into dinosaurs
> by virtue of an environment and situatedness that made this "design" the best
> one at the time. And it was incredibly successful. Dinosaurs lived for millions
> of years. When conditions changed, and this "design" was unsuccessful, the
> cells tried new ways, some failing, some succeeding, until the static latching
> of a betterness produced new "organisms" that were successful. One of those
> organisms was "man", who over time developed social patterns of behavior.

Why a drive towards "betterness." What's the source? Where did the source come from?

> A "God" teleology says "we need social patterns so let's make a man". An "oops"
> teleology does not take into account the evolutionary complexity of biological
> organisms in their specific environmental and situated conditions. "AHA!" takes
> this into account (AHA! is a moment of latching, as individual patterns follow
> DQ) without the need to propose some preconceived "design" in the mind of a
> "transcendental intelligence". 

You've already admitted it's just luck.
 
> [Platt]
> Where did you ever get the idea that I force your behavior to my belief system?
> You seem to ignore atheists like you who have a history of forced behavior with
> your big government schemes.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Notice what I said... "But, like Pirsig, those who adhere to literalism will
> either end up a Pope or a Chairman." I never said that coercion of others was a
> sole facet of theism. But before you condemn "atheists", you better fess up to
> the entirety of coercion forced on others by theists.. an ongoing force in this
> country today. And I get the "idea" that you "force" your belief system on to
> me every time you advance "Judeo-Christian morality" as a basis for law.

And atheists are not an ongoing force in this country today? Really Arlo, I
do expect better from you.

> [Platt]
> Keep in mind that everyone doesn't need to be socially-dominated by your ideas
> of a better life imposed by government edicts that destroy Dynamic Quality.
> (See Pirisg's comments about socialism -- the secular humanist's ideal.) 
> 
> [Arlo]
> So what you are saying is, it is better for religion to dominate society than
> Intellect?

Now it comes out. You, the secular humanist, guide your behavior, and force others
to follow your lead, because you are a guided by intellect.  Where have I head that 
before? Oh, now I remember. Karl Marx. Are you saying it is better for a politburo
to dominate society than religion? 





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