[MD] male/female and the gwain analogy

[Ron Kulp]

" Shiva as Nataraja is the Divine Cosmic Dancer. Shiva as Ardhnarishwara
is both man and woman.
The tale about Shiva splitting into two halves of male and female
indicates the origin of the Ardhanarishvara - the union of spirit and
material, the Being and his Shakti (force). He is also above Spirit and
Material.

He is both static and dynamic; both Creator and Destroyer. He is the
oldest(Jyeshta) and the youngest(Kanishta); He is the eternal youth as
well as the infant. He is the source of fertility in all living beings.
He has gentle as well as fierce forms. Shiva is the greatest of
renouncers as well as the ideal lover. He destroys evil and protects
good. He bestows prosperity on worshipers although He is austere. He is
omnipresent and resides in everyone as pure consciousness."

Sound familier?
-x


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:44 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] male/female and the gwain analogy

Marsha,
That passage from Lila really stuck with me too, a lot of what you're
saying has connection and weight among the other threads also.
The Male /Female split, static/dynamic has been associated with this
too. First off, I feel RMP would have had better ground to stand on If
he had not slept with her first(typ.), which he did, then proceeded with
his questioning, the preconception was there and she was right.
No matter how she answered the preconception was already established
between them.
I like to think pirsig introduced these elements in the story just to
illustrate these sorts of situations. This passage had a lot to say
About male/ female too, Lila said that men try to find and kill that
dynamic quality in women, men long to control this female aspect, To
make it more static and therefore hold it. The psycology of the sex act
between the two plays apon the situation also. RMP used it as a device
To help him resolve  the death of chris and his own mental breakdown by
seeing himself in lila and related to her and her loss.
I think RMP chose a female to relay this exactly for this reason. I
could be wrong.
I have a lot of ideas about this  it's symbolism and mythos and how it
fits in with the MOQ. 
It's been danced around but seldom met with serious inquirey.
I 've been wondering why this method of looking objectively  at mythos
in ancient texts whether religeous or not is met with Less than
favorable reaction. I mean is'nt it one of the most basic obvious
splits? One wonders if humans were asexual if any of this Fodder would
even be in consideration.
Like Alladin, Gwain chose the road less traveled, he thought outside the
duality..

I think I understand where you are coming from Marsha.

-X



-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of MarshaV
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:03 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


Hi SA,

Yes, I see them connected.  I hope there was a real woman who actually
said that to RMP.

m


At 11:53 AM 1/21/2007, you wrote:

>      [Marsha]
> > Interesting, the thinking experience, it's both the
>cure and the
> > disease.
>
>
>       Since you've brought up the quote of Lila in the Life, Love, and

>Freedom [MD], and mention Gawain, Marsha, would you agree the [MD], 
>Gawain, and this above sentence all go together?  Here's a quote from 
>the [MD] post as follows:
>
>      "'Fuck your questions! I'm whatever your questions turn me into.

>You don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If you 
>think I 'm an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore 
>then that's what I am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your 
>mind about me then I change too.'"
>
>
>      The questions, dissecting, forgetting about dq, your above 
>statement.  Are you saying something here?
>And I know that's a question, so, you might say say "Fuck your 
>questions!"  hahaha, and that would be an answer.
>
>thanks.
>
>
>Sincerly and honest as the white snow on the hill, SA
>
>
>
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