[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[Micah]

David M,

What "quality" isn't human? What "behavior" isn't human. Remember these are
human concepts placed on objects and animals by humans.

Both religion and science begin with the assumption that reality exists
without humans. One is used to perceive objective reality and one is used to
deny it, both are based on a faulty premise.

Intelligence is what we say it is, nothing else defines reality, only
humans. Design is also what we say it is, because like all mental concepts,
it resides within us, not without us.

No humans = no reality (Quality).

Micah


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:43 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


Micah

Seems to me wrong to assume there is (i.e. natural theology)
or that there is not (i.e. secularised science, by the way
Newton spent half his life trying to observe a 'life force'
in inorganic matter, pre-secularised scienece you could say). More
agnosticism
please or at least please argue your position, I cannot see
a conclusive case either way myself. Intelligence and
design are not inseparable either. Is it not rather odd to
think nature is limited to producing only human forms of
intelligence?  Anyone want to try defining intelligence?

I do agree that design is a concept that seems particularly
hard to see in non-human behaviour, it is pretty rare for
humans too! But intelligence, well is that not always
required for the quality to be ackowledged? Perhaps, no
intelligence = no anything.

David M


----- Original Message -----
From: "Micah" <micah at roarkplumbing.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


> Platt,
>
> Plato had intelligence, a human concept, that can be used to perceive
> design. The universe is neither designed nor intelligent, those qualities
> reside, like belief, in our heads and do not exist independent of humans.
>
> Micah
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:05 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)
>
>
> Quoting Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com>:
>
>> Platt,
>>
>> Where did Plato's belief reside? In his head or in the universe?
>
>
> What's the difference?
>
>
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