[MD] male/female and the gwain analogy

[MarshaV]

At 01:35 PM 1/22/2007, Ron wrote:

>" Shiva as Nataraja is the Divine Cosmic Dancer. Shiva as Ardhnarishwara
>is both man and woman.
>The tale about Shiva splitting into two halves of male and female
>indicates the origin of the Ardhanarishvara - the union of spirit and
>material, the Being and his Shakti (force). He is also above Spirit and
>Material.
>
>He is both static and dynamic; both Creator and Destroyer. He is the
>oldest(Jyeshta) and the youngest(Kanishta); He is the eternal youth as
>well as the infant. He is the source of fertility in all living beings.
>He has gentle as well as fierce forms. Shiva is the greatest of
>renouncers as well as the ideal lover. He destroys evil and protects
>good. He bestows prosperity on worshipers although He is austere. He is
>omnipresent and resides in everyone as pure consciousness."
>
>Sound familier?
>-x
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
>[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
>Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:44 PM
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Subject: Re: [MD] male/female and the gwain analogy
>
>Marsha,
>That passage from Lila really stuck with me too, a lot of what you're
>saying has connection and weight among the other threads also.
>The Male /Female split, static/dynamic has been associated with this
>too. First off, I feel RMP would have had better ground to stand on If
>he had not slept with her first(typ.), which he did, then proceeded with
>his questioning, the preconception was there and she was right.
>No matter how she answered the preconception was already established
>between them.
>I like to think pirsig introduced these elements in the story just to
>illustrate these sorts of situations. This passage had a lot to say
>About male/ female too, Lila said that men try to find and kill that
>dynamic quality in women, men long to control this female aspect, To
>make it more static and therefore hold it. The psycology of the sex act
>between the two plays apon the situation also. RMP used it as a device
>To help him resolve  the death of chris and his own mental breakdown by
>seeing himself in lila and related to her and her loss.
>I think RMP chose a female to relay this exactly for this reason. I
>could be wrong.
>I have a lot of ideas about this  it's symbolism and mythos and how it
>fits in with the MOQ.
>It's been danced around but seldom met with serious inquirey.
>I 've been wondering why this method of looking objectively  at mythos
>in ancient texts whether religeous or not is met with Less than
>favorable reaction. I mean is'nt it one of the most basic obvious
>splits? One wonders if humans were asexual if any of this Fodder would
>even be in consideration.
>Like Alladin, Gwain chose the road less traveled, he thought outside the
>duality..
>
>I think I understand where you are coming from Marsha.
>
>-X
>


Dear Ron,

As much as I've had, and still have, a growing respect for the MOQ, 
it was Lila that I have always thought was the hero of the book.  She 
was not perfect by intellectual standards, but she was a heroic 
warrior.  The depth from which she spoke her truth to the captain was 
the most profound truth I ever read.  And later when making love to 
him, she gave him an incredible gift.  She was a dakini.  Kali.

There is an old prayer to Shiva that I've used many times.  'Shiva, 
please dance on my head.'   Do you know of it?  I think Kali is much 
older, though.

Thank you very much for both posts.  It is not often I feel that 
anyone understands.

m