[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Platt]
> In other words, are you asserting that Christian ethics had little to do with
> their decisions and want me to show evidence otherwise?
> 
> [Arlo]
> I see no evidence that their decisions have any Biblical support. And I have
> looked. Gauging from the Enlightenment treatises published, it seems clear to
> me their decisions were based on reason, not dictates of the Christian God.

Who said anything about "dictates?" Typical distortion. 
> 
> [Platt]
> What is this humanist ethic you keep bringing up and what is it's basis if not
> Christianity? Buddhism perhaps? Or Zen?
> 
> [Arlo]
> One part of it, now typed for the third time... By granting your freedom, I
> guarantee my own. Its a social contract built on an understanding on how to
> maximize freedom for everyone.

What is the basis of freedom for everyone? Historically that's a new idea. And
what are some other parts of the humanist ethic, and what are their foundations?
 
> [Arlo asked]
> Why do you then force other aspects of Christian ethics on people?
> 
> [Platt]
> You mean the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? This is not
> force; this is preventing force abrogating those rights.
> 
> [Arlo]
> These aren't Christian ethics. They are Humanist ethics. And I agree that they
> prevent force from abrogating our freedom.

Again I ask. What is the basis for your claim of humanist ethics?

> [Platt]
> So you want to make people dependent on the state? It figures.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Sidestepping. I said where, in Christian ethics, does it say not to feed a man
> lest he become dependent? Where does Jesus say not to heal those who may become
> dependent on others? I don't think "Christian ethics" necessarily cares one wit
> about whether or not the recipient of your charity becomes "dependent". The
> charge is to be charitable. If we are legislating "Christian ethics", why skip
> the main messages and choose only bits and pieces (like anti-homosexuality)?

You skip and sidestep teach a man to fish.

> [Platt]
> No. Jesus didn't believe in forcing people to do anything at the point of a
> sword.
> 
> [Arlo]
> You, yourself, are talking about legislating "Christian ethics". By your own
> definition, that's forcing someone to behave according to that code "at the
> point of a sword". 

I just argued that Jesus never, never said Christian charity or anything else
should be enforced at the point of a sword. Am I talking to myself here?

> [Platt]
> Where in the Bible does it say Jesus advocated slavery?
> 
> [Arlo]
> I never said he did. I have said repeatedly that the Constitution was not
> founded on "Christian ethics". The good parts were founded on humanist reason,
> or enlightenment reason. The bad parts were founded on mercantilism and racism.
> "God" just provided a paper-authority.

So you question the honesty and integrity of the Founding Fathers such as Benjamin
Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and others who frequently referred to God in their
deliberations? Is that what you mean by "paper-authority?"
 
You said Marx reflected the teachings of Jesus. Marx proposed making slaves of the
people by confiscating all private property. 


 




-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/