[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Platt]
I think "oops" pegs your position perfectly. Anyway, it's just a metaphor, so no
reason to get upset about it. :-)

[Arlo]
Like all metaphors, it signifies. "Oops" signifies negativity, its what you say
when you spill your glass of milk. "AHA!" is positive. It connotes discovery
and latching.

[Arlo previously]
"The Quality which creates the world emerges as a relationship between man and
his experience. He is a participant in the creation of all things." (Pirsig)

[Platt]
Can't find that quote in Lila. He changed his tune about creation from when he
wrote ZMM to when he wrote Lila. like he changed the Romantic/Classic split. 

[Arlo]
Can you show me where in LILA he says he changes his tune about creation? Pirsig
calls, up to the present, ZMM "the path to enlightenment". Hardly what someone
would say if they changed their mind. And he doesn't, he would still propose (I
am sure) that Quality is the best way to heal the R/C divide. Only that in
developing a metaphysics, the S/D divide is better. And... notice that this
quote says nothing about R/C. It is a straightforward passage about Quality.
I'll wait for where you show me he changed his mind about that.

Here it is again (its such a good statement). "The Quality which creates the
world emerges as a relationship between man and his experience. He is a
participant in the creation of all things." Now you show me where in LILA he
says this is not true.

[Pirsig in ZMM]
"The One can only be described allegorically, through the use of analogy, of
figures of imagination and speech." (Pirsig)

[Platt]
Are you saying that quote justifies your assertion that all is metaphor except
pre-intellectual experience?

[Arlo]
Yes, Pirsig nailed that. In LILA he quotes, "Our intellectual description of
nature is always culturally derived." 

Also from LILA, and I like this one too, ""Vast emptiness and nothing sacred."
If ever there was a visible concrete metaphor for Dynamic Quality this was it."

Finally, quote-wise for now, is this.

"Unlike sub­ject-object metaphysics the Metaphysics of Quality does not insist
on a single exclusive truth. If subjects and objects are held to be the
ultimate reality then we're permitted only one construction of things-that
which corresponds to the "objective" world-and all other constructions are
unreal. But if Quality or excellence is seen as the ultimate reality then it
becomes possible for more than one set of truths to exist. Then one doesn't
seek the absolute "Truth." One seeks instead the highest quality intellectual
explanation of things with the knowledge that if the past is any guide to the
future this explanation must be taken provisionally; as useful until something
better comes along. One can then examine intellectual realities the same way he
examines paintings in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one
is the "real" painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value.
There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive
some to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the
result of our history and current patterns of values." (LILA)

Intellectual realities are paintings in an art gallery. Now THAT, amigos, is a
good metaphor.

[Platt]
So the One could be God, Consciousness, Quality -- all basically beyond
comprehension, as I've stated, but nevertheless known. For example, we cannot
define Consciousness, but we know it by being conscious.

[Arlo]
That One could be God, Consciousness, Quality -- so long as one remembers that
that description is not "Truth", it is a metaphor. And like Pirsig says, some
are better than others, and I'd interpret this to mean that the "better ones"
point towards DQ with more success, while the "poor" ones tend to fail at that,
or point only to static quality. 

"Unceasing, continuous
It cannot be defined
And reverts again into the realm of nothingness
That is why it is called the form of the formless
The image of nothingness"

Out of nothingness, into nothingness. Or as the wise bard Andrew Eldritch penned
"Words are just dust."