[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Arlo previously]
> "The Quality which creates the world emerges as a relationship between man and
> his experience. He is a participant in the creation of all things." (Pirsig)
> 
> [Platt]
> Can't find that quote in Lila. He changed his tune about creation from when he
> wrote ZMM to when he wrote Lila. like he changed the Romantic/Classic split. 
> 
> [Arlo]
> Can you show me where in LILA he says he changes his tune about creation? Pirsig
> calls, up to the present, ZMM "the path to enlightenment". Hardly what someone
> would say if they changed their mind. And he doesn't, he would still propose (I
> am sure) that Quality is the best way to heal the R/C divide. Only that in
> developing a metaphysics, the S/D divide is better. And... notice that this
> quote says nothing about R/C. It is a straightforward passage about Quality.
> I'll wait for where you show me he changed his mind about that.

"Although Dynamic Quality, the Quality of freedom, creates this world in which we 
live, these patterns of static quality, the quality of order, preserve our world.
Neither static nor Dynamic Quality can survive without the other." (Lila, 9)

Notice, "man" need not apply.

In ZMM, R/C was his initial metaphysical split. In Lila, he changed
it to S/D -- a major change since it "dominates everything beneath it."  

> [Pirsig in ZMM]
> "The One can only be described allegorically, through the use of analogy, of
> figures of imagination and speech." (Pirsig)
> 
> [Platt]
> Are you saying that quote justifies your assertion that all is metaphor except
> pre-intellectual experience?
> 
> [Arlo]
> Yes, Pirsig nailed that. In LILA he quotes, "Our intellectual description of
> nature is always culturally derived." 
> 
> Also from LILA, and I like this one too, ""Vast emptiness and nothing sacred."
> If ever there was a visible concrete metaphor for Dynamic Quality this was it."

I like that metaphor, too. Suggests transcendence. 

> Finally, quote-wise for now, is this.
> 
> "Unlike sub­ject-object metaphysics the Metaphysics of Quality does not insist
> on a single exclusive truth. If subjects and objects are held to be the
> ultimate reality then we're permitted only one construction of things-that
> which corresponds to the "objective" world-and all other constructions are
> unreal. But if Quality or excellence is seen as the ultimate reality then it
> becomes possible for more than one set of truths to exist. Then one doesn't
> seek the absolute "Truth." One seeks instead the highest quality intellectual
> explanation of things with the knowledge that if the past is any guide to the
> future this explanation must be taken provisionally; as useful until something
> better comes along. One can then examine intellectual realities the same way he
> examines paintings in an art gallery, not with an effort to find out which one
> is the "real" painting, but simply to enjoy and keep those that are of value.
> There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive
> some to have more quality than others, but that we do so is, in part, the
> result of our history and current patterns of values." (LILA)
> 
> Intellectual realities are paintings in an art gallery. Now THAT, amigos, is a
> good metaphor.

Yes, but you can't eat intellectual realities.

> [Platt]
> So the One could be God, Consciousness, Quality -- all basically beyond
> comprehension, as I've stated, but nevertheless known. For example, we cannot
> define Consciousness, but we know it by being conscious.
> 
> [Arlo]
> That One could be God, Consciousness, Quality -- so long as one remembers that
> that description is not "Truth", it is a metaphor. And like Pirsig says, some
> are better than others, and I'd interpret this to mean that the "better ones"
> point towards DQ with more success, while the "poor" ones tend to fail at that,
> or point only to static quality. 
> 
> "Unceasing, continuous
> It cannot be defined
> And reverts again into the realm of nothingness
> That is why it is called the form of the formless
> The image of nothingness"
> 
> Out of nothingness, into nothingness. Or as the wise bard Andrew Eldritch penned
> "Words are just dust."

Yes, but you won't live long without words.



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