[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[Micah]

DM,

I have used this rock analogy before and am not bright enough to think of a
better one, so here goes:

If I use tongs to take a rock out of a fire after being in the fire for
hours, is the rock hot?
No, the rock is a rock and does not have the ability to be hot, it can't
understand hot - it is a rock. Hot is what we are when we touch the rock. It
is a concept used to describe our perceived quality of the rock. The hot
concept is in us, not the rock...the rock just is. The universe just is,
it - like a rock doesn't hold concepts like design - that quality, like all
humans concepts resides in us, not without us.

Our senses provide data on reality which we order to form our perceptions
and can lead to knowledge, and two or more humans will have shared objective
reality.

Micah


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of David M
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:32 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


Micah said:

 The universe is neither designed nor intelligent

and Micah said:

> What "quality" isn't human? What "behavior" isn't human. Remember these
> are
> human concepts placed on objects and animals by humans.
>
> Both religion and science begin with the assumption that reality exists
> without humans. One is used to perceive objective reality and one is used
> to
> deny it, both are based on a faulty premise.
>
> Intelligence is what we say it is, nothing else defines reality, only
> humans. Design is also what we say it is, because like all mental
> concepts,
> it resides within us, not without us.
>
> No humans = no reality (Quality).
>


DM: You claim to know that the universe cannot contain concepts
like designed or intelligent, but this universe you are referring to
is also one of these concepts so what is can or cannot be like
depends how you conceive it, doesn't seem to be a matter of
knowledge at all.


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