[MD] Alternatives to the scientific method

Fri Jul 27 03:41:34 PDT 2007

There is an observer in this model, but as its a microcosm of the larger system and where I'm applying it as a metophor for that larger system then its true that there is no observer who is not themselves part of the dataset under investigation.

I dont think that stops it from working though I just have to make the assumption that "the observer"(/programmer) always has sight of the patterns produced by SCn. So that by definition my observer is always of the hghest level derivative order pattern available. 
Sounds good to me, where's my screwdriver.....

 -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of gav
> Sent: 27 July 2007 11:17
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> 
> 
> forgot the observer eh?
> 
> 
> --- "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)"
> <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK> wrote:
> 
> > Ian --
> > > 
> > > > I was not referring to the hypothesis, but the
> > four step 
> > > process itself;
> > > > that is presumed common sense too, but unfounded
> > and untestable
> > > > in itself. (A meta-problem)
> > 
> > Ham
> > 
> > What grounds do you have for this claim?  And what
> > would Ian Glendinning 
> > propose as a more efficacious alternative to the
> > scientific method?
> > 
> > Me:
> > 
> > Ham, I think that by asking that question you miss
> > your own opportunity to even try and come up with
> > something, would you like to join Ian out on his
> > limb and see if anything springs to mind?
> > 
> > To re-state it:
> > 
> > 1)Propose an explanatory hypothesis to describe the
> > operation of a given system, 
> > 2)Invent experiments that are potentially
> > confounding of that hypothesis and test it to
> > destruction. 
> > 3)Repeat steps 1 & 2 iteratively until satisfied
> > that no further potentially confounding experiments
> > can be conceived of. 
> > 4)Write down your conclusions and show them to some
> > other scientists.
> > 
> > Seems reasonable enough, but the issues are:
> > Why look at that particular system?
> > Why test these particular hypotheses?
> > What defines the operational parameters of the
> > system? - and further, 
> > When science by its nature makes a requirement of
> > impartiality, how do you ensure that you pursue
> > hypothesis formulation with equal zeal as
> > experimental investigation? Its like asking a lawyer
> > to be defence and prosecution at the same time.
> > 
> > So, enough negativity then, lets have some
> > suggestions,
> > Mine is as follows:
> > 
> > 
> > "Test everything"
> > Random/Chaotic hypothesis formulations are made by a
> > supercomputer SC1 based on a dataset of all
> > available data. These are constantly "tested" by an
> > adversarial supercomputer SC2, and the results of
> > SC2 are fed back to SC1 as further information on
> > which to base new hypotheses. 
> > Communications between computers 1 & 2 is monitored
> > by 3rd independent supercomputer which maps the
> > iterations and extrapolates from the developing
> > patterns to predict end points. These are also fed
> > back to SC1, and the communications between SC3 and
> > SC1 are monitored and mapped by you guessed it SC4
> > etc.....
> > 
> > The logical operations of SC2, 3 and 4 etc... need
> > to be defined and I suggest using a further
> > independent supercomputer to use genetic algorithms
> > to define the logic of the other computers
> > pragmatically from the results of their own early
> > experiments, constantly refreshing them with "new
> > best logics" as it refines them.
> > 
> > So the whole thing would create layers of patterns
> > of information, and define sets of pragmatic rules
> > to operate at each level, generating no answers at
> > all, but instead setting out the available data in
> > one large ordered pattern allowing an observer
> > to......
> > 
> > oh.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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