[MD] FW: Quantum weirdness

[Ron Kulp]

 [Ham]
The world as finitely experienced is an intellectual construct, as Micah
and I have been arguing for some time.  To conclude that ultimate
reality is limited to such a finite scheme is to reject the value of
metaphysical theory and bind yourself to an SOM construct.  This is what
I thought Mr.
Pirsig was trying to escape.

[ron]
Ham, Micah's failing is the outright denial of the existence of
objective reality he sees it as a construct
Of the subject, of which I argue that subject can not exist independent
of object or you are at an
Absolute again and paradox emerges once more. Like Pirsig said all
levels depend on the ones below it. Subject is objects awareness, what
causes object?  the infinate value of opposites, object is infinate 
and has no beginning. Ever in a state of creation/destruction. This is
why I disagree with Micah's
View.

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 8:34 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] FW: Quantum weirdness

 
[Case]
Right, I should ignore the work of physicists and mathematicians and
focus on your speculations. Many physicists have complained that because
no tests for string theory have yet to be proposed, that string theory
should not be considered a part of physics. Instead they maintain it is
really speculative metaphysics. It is a simple and coherent theory and I
for one plan to keep my eye on it. At its cutting edge physics is
metaphysics. So rejecting your idle speculations hardly constitutes a
rejection of metaphysics.

[Ron]
To my knowledge the super string theory developed out of odd anomalies
observed in super colliders, They're building that super huge super
collider in Texas right now just for that reason, to get a bigger Better
look at just what is going on.
I was watching how they're building that sucker on Modern Marvels,
absolutely amazing.


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Case
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:16 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] FW: Quantum weirdness

[Ham]
You may think you're bringing me up to speed with this rock guitarist's
self-promotion, but I fail to see the point of a 10th dimension.  So far
as I know, Einstein's universe consisted of four dimensions: three
spatial and one temporal.  What exactly are the other six?

[Case]
I realize getting you up to speed was optimistic. But the point is that
string theory and other newer interpretations of physics incorporate
multiple dimensions. The video at that site shows you how the dimensions
work.

[Ham]
Dimensionality is an intellectual scrabble game to explain phenomena we
can't otherwise understand.  The mode of human perception is
spatio-temporal.  It relates to the four-dimensional world of finite
experience. 

[Case]
Actually human perception is assuredly not confine to four dimensions.
Access to memory and the ability to model the future allow us to travel
back in fourth in time. This mean we can perceive in at least five
dimensions.
And as the video demonstrates we can conceptualize at least 10.

[Ham]
The world as finitely experienced is an intellectual construct, as Micah
and I have been arguing for some time.  To conclude that ultimate
reality is limited to such a finite scheme is to reject the value of
metaphysical theory and bind yourself to an SOM construct.  This is what
I thought Mr.
Pirsig was trying to escape.

[Case]
Right, I should ignore the work of physicists and mathematicians and
focus on your speculations. Many physicists have complained that because
no tests for string theory have yet to be proposed, that string theory
should not be considered a part of physics. Instead they maintain it is
really speculative metaphysics. It is a simple and coherent theory and I
for one plan to keep my eye on it. At its cutting edge physics is
metaphysics. So rejecting your idle speculations hardly constitutes a
rejection of metaphysics.

[Ham]
Creation is not an act in time, like winding up a watch mechanism and
then letting it run out.  It is constant and applies to every moment of
cognizant experience.  

[Case]
Creation does seem to have been an act in time and the consequences of
that event are now working themselves out though the process of time.

[Ham]
The universal template is the appearance that is sustained throughout
the life of every cognizant being by the awareness/otherness dichotomy.
The only way to transcend the appearance of finitude is to end your
being-aware and eliminate the dichotomy.

[Case]
Do you seriously believe that you have arrived at a scheme that warrants
ignoring all of math and science? 

[Ham]
Or, of course, you can make up songs about the 10th dimension and
pretend you know something that I don't.

[Case]
Actually I had forgotten there even was a song on that site. In any
event I did not listen to it so I really have no idea what you are
talking about. I mean even more so than usual.



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