[MD] Chan and qi/eastern intellect

[skutvik at online.no]

Marsha, Ron, Group.

On 8 Nov. Marsha said to Ron who had replied to Marsha's original question :

(Marsha 1):
> > > Don't you think the MOQ is the finger pointing to the moon, a map,
> > > world-view? 

(Ron):
> > I think It is the finger conceptually, it is the moon in awareness. 

(Marsh 2)
> And who has totally transformed into that awareness?  To me, the MOQ is
> an intellectual map explaining the view, but it is not the view. 

I believe Ron says: "The MOQ is a map/terrain guide when we 
intellectualize and reality itself when we intuitize (is that a word?)  
Marsha 2's question ("and who has ...) I don't fully understand, 
but she repeats the map/terrain distinction.

I agree with Ron (provided he agrees with my "translation"?) 
Marsha's finger/moon or map/terrain is similar to Ron's first 
thesis: when we intellectualize the MOQ is a (subjective) theory 
about an alleged (objective) reality.

But the MOQ is more than its intellectual level and the shift from 
intellect's SOM role to the 4th. level one is a "Copernican 
Revolution", no intermediate stages between the two roles exist. 
Does anyone know the picture of two black faces that can shift to 
a white vase? The shift is total, no blurred in-between stages.  

This is a good metaphor for MOQ's the transformation from an 
ordinary map of reality to reality itself. Those who only see the 
map/reality (S/O) only see the black faces and will do so 
regardless. But those who are able to shift to the Quality=Reality 
- white vase view - will understand the new reality where the 
former SOM becomes the 4th.static level.. 

But it's not Marsha but Pirsig himself who for some inexplicable 
reason didn't see the enormity of his own achievement and spoke 
about the MOQ as something that polluted the pure Quality. 
Stemming from his Buddhist affliction and its view of an ineffable 
reality that no words can speak about.  But the MOQ is a wisdom 
based on the West's long sojourn at SOM that requires greater 
clarity than Oriental mysticism. Quality does not correspond to 
the ineffable reality but it is the DQ/SQ aggregate! OK, I have 
probably said this before.

Bo