[MD] Value and the Individual

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Platt]
Dynamic liberty doesn't mean you have the right to disturb the peace 
at will. Why do you suppose cars are required to muffle their motors?

[Arlo]
I would think the true Liberty person would see this as an 
opportunity to call for more freedom regarding car mufflers. And who 
are you to tell ME what is "disturbing the peace"? And let's get away 
from the potential "majority rule" thing for just one moment, why do 
YOU think its okay for YOU to USE the guns of government to FORCE ME 
to conform to YOUR ideas on "peace"? Do you then also think I have 
the right to use government to force you to conform to my ideas on peace?

[Platt]
Peace and quiet is required for full functioning of intellectual values.

[Arlo]
Is it only sound that effects the functioning of intellectual 
patterns, or do other sensations (such as smell and sight) also 
effect this functioning?

[Platt]
Otherwise, why not allow libraries to broadcast Nascar races over 
giant TVs in reading rooms?

[Arlo]
You are also not allowed to smoke in public libraries for this same 
reason, it disturbs others. So following your logic, we should then 
ban smoking in public as well.

[Platt]
"Things like sex and booze and drugs and- tobacco have a high 
biological quality, that is, they feel good, but are harmful for 
social reasons. They take all your money. They break up your family . 
They threaten the stability of the community." (Lila, 13)

[Arlo]
Explain to me how allowing women to choose to go topless "takes all 
your money" or "breaks up your family" or "threatens the stability of 
the community". Do you think bikini tops do this as well, or only 
fully naked breasts? Your logic, then, is that you can show as much 
of the breast as you want and "your money" and "the family" and "the 
stability of the community" will be okay, but show the nipple and 
WHAM! people lose their money, families break up, and the stability 
of the community collapses.

Also, I note the inclusion of booze and tobacco here. Since women 
(using this quote) can be forbidden from exposing their breasts in 
public, does this quote support forbidding drinking and smoking in 
public as well? Or can we skip the "booze" and "drugs" and pick out 
the part of the quote we personally find distasteful?

[Platt]
Please define what you mean by Social Darwinism...

[Arlo]
Simply that the wealthy are wealthy because they are smart, 
hardworking and industrious, while the poor are poor because they are 
stupid, lazy and parasitic. "Survival of the fittest" in this regard 
is simply nature's way of elevating those with value and leaving 
behind those without. Since anyone with any real value will rise, 
those who do not can be dismissed as chaff that can be discarded with 
no real thought or concern.

The miner's at Hawk's Nest, for example, need not concern us because 
they were obviously too stupid to do anything else, too stupid to 
pick up and get jobs elsewhere, too stupid to learn a better trade, 
and so the fact that they were killed is no reason to demand 
regulations on the mine industry, and punish the producers and 
shakers for the loss of a few losers.

As Krimel quotes Raygun is a recent post, the homeless choose to 
sleep on grates, so that's their problem.

[Platt]
... and why you find the concept objectionable when evolution is 
considered by many intellectuals to explain much of human behavior 
including our moral sense.

[Arlo]
I find the concept objectionable because the potential contributions 
to intellectual evolution are not determined by social-status 
birth-rite or achievement. To allow social-level success to determine 
the value of the individual (which then determines her/his access to 
education and medicine) undermines the potential evolutionary 
trajectory of the intellectual level. This holds true for ANY social 
system where potential intellectual achievement (of the individual) 
is preceded (and determined) by social status or social power.