[MD] Value and the Individual

[Heather Perella]

Platt,

     I take it you would support no-fly zones over
national parks by airplanes and no snow mobiles in
national parks to rid what has been called their
"noise pollution".

SA


> [Platt]
> Dynamic liberty doesn't mean you have the right to
> disturb the peace 
> at will. Why do you suppose cars are required to
> muffle their motors?
> 
> [Arlo]
> I would think the true Liberty person would see this
> as an 
> opportunity to call for more freedom regarding car
> mufflers. And who 
> are you to tell ME what is "disturbing the peace"?
> And let's get away 
> from the potential "majority rule" thing for just
> one moment, why do 
> YOU think its okay for YOU to USE the guns of
> government to FORCE ME 
> to conform to YOUR ideas on "peace"? Do you then
> also think I have 
> the right to use government to force you to conform
> to my ideas on peace?
> 
> [Platt]
> Peace and quiet is required for full functioning of
> intellectual values.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Is it only sound that effects the functioning of
> intellectual 
> patterns, or do other sensations (such as smell and
> sight) also 
> effect this functioning?
> 
> [Platt]
> Otherwise, why not allow libraries to broadcast
> Nascar races over 
> giant TVs in reading rooms?
> 
> [Arlo]
> You are also not allowed to smoke in public
> libraries for this same 
> reason, it disturbs others. So following your logic,
> we should then 
> ban smoking in public as well.
> 
> [Platt]
> "Things like sex and booze and drugs and- tobacco
> have a high 
> biological quality, that is, they feel good, but are
> harmful for 
> social reasons. They take all your money. They break
> up your family . 
> They threaten the stability of the community."
> (Lila, 13)
> 
> [Arlo]
> Explain to me how allowing women to choose to go
> topless "takes all 
> your money" or "breaks up your family" or "threatens
> the stability of 
> the community". Do you think bikini tops do this as
> well, or only 
> fully naked breasts? Your logic, then, is that you
> can show as much 
> of the breast as you want and "your money" and "the
> family" and "the 
> stability of the community" will be okay, but show
> the nipple and 
> WHAM! people lose their money, families break up,
> and the stability 
> of the community collapses.
> 
> Also, I note the inclusion of booze and tobacco
> here. Since women 
> (using this quote) can be forbidden from exposing
> their breasts in 
> public, does this quote support forbidding drinking
> and smoking in 
> public as well? Or can we skip the "booze" and
> "drugs" and pick out 
> the part of the quote we personally find
> distasteful?
> 
> [Platt]
> Please define what you mean by Social Darwinism...
> 
> [Arlo]
> Simply that the wealthy are wealthy because they are
> smart, 
> hardworking and industrious, while the poor are poor
> because they are 
> stupid, lazy and parasitic. "Survival of the
> fittest" in this regard 
> is simply nature's way of elevating those with value
> and leaving 
> behind those without. Since anyone with any real
> value will rise, 
> those who do not can be dismissed as chaff that can
> be discarded with 
> no real thought or concern.
> 
> The miner's at Hawk's Nest, for example, need not
> concern us because 
> they were obviously too stupid to do anything else,
> too stupid to 
> pick up and get jobs elsewhere, too stupid to learn
> a better trade, 
> and so the fact that they were killed is no reason
> to demand 
> regulations on the mine industry, and punish the
> producers and 
> shakers for the loss of a few losers.
> 
> As Krimel quotes Raygun is a recent post, the
> homeless choose to 
> sleep on grates, so that's their problem.
> 
> [Platt]
> ... and why you find the concept objectionable when
> evolution is 
> considered by many intellectuals to explain much of
> human behavior 
> including our moral sense.
> 
> [Arlo]
> I find the concept objectionable because the
> potential contributions 
> to intellectual evolution are not determined by
> social-status 
> birth-rite or achievement. To allow social-level
> success to determine 
> the value of the individual (which then determines
> her/his access to 
> education and medicine) undermines the potential
> evolutionary 
> trajectory of the intellectual level. This holds
> true for ANY social 
> system where potential intellectual achievement (of
> the individual) 
> is preceded (and determined) by social status or
> social power.
> 
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