[MD] Reet and the Weakest Link

[Ron Kulp]

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Platt Holden
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 11:35 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Reet and the Weakest Link

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:25 AM, Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com> wrote:

>
>
> [Craig]
> I still think "experience is reality" is too glib, out of context.
> Better would be:
> 7') .  Experience doesn't need a system of relations to be real.  It is
> already real.
>
> Ron:
> An excellent list Craig, I would say experience doesn't need a system of
> relations to be real but it does require a system of relations to be
> understood. (hot stove).
>
> Hi Ron:
Pirsig says reality doesn't require a system of relations to be understood.

"Quality doesn't have to be defined. You understand it without definition,
ahead of definition. Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior
to intellectual abstractions." (Lila, 5)


Platt:
Probably just a difference between you and Pirsig about  the meaning of
"understand."

Ron:
"understand" is understood as knowledge from a system of relations.
Biological reactions to stimuli can hardly be classified as an "understanding" in the traditional meaning of the term.
lets see what the collaborative has to say about the term:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This 
un·der·stand    Audio Help   /ˌʌndərˈstænd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uhn-der-stand] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -stood, -stand·ing. 
–verb (used with object) 1. to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to understand Spanish; I didn't understand your question.  
2. to be thoroughly familiar with; apprehend clearly the character, nature, or subtleties of: to understand a trade.  
3. to assign a meaning to; interpret: He understood her suggestion as a complaint.  
4. to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of: He does not understand responsibility.  
5. to regard as firmly communicated; take as agreed or settled: I understand that you will repay this loan in 30 days.  
6. to learn or hear: I understand that you are going out of town.  
7. to accept as true; believe: I understand that you are trying to be truthful, but you are wrong.  
8. to construe in a particular way: You are to understand the phrase literally.  
9. to supply mentally (something that is not expressed).  
–verb (used without object) 10. to perceive what is meant; grasp the information conveyed: She told them about it in simple words, hoping they would understand.  
11. to accept tolerantly or sympathetically: If you can't do it, I'll understand.  
12. to have knowledge or background, as on a particular subject: He understands about boats.  
13. to have a systematic interpretation or rationale, as in a field or area of knowledge: He can repeat every rule in the book, but he just doesn't understand.  


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[Origin: bef. 900; ME understanden, understonden, OE understondan; c. D onderstaan. See under-, stand] 


—Synonyms 1. See know1.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. 
Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. 
understand

To learn more about understand visit Britannica.com

© 2008 Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. 
un·der·stand    Audio Help   (ŭn'dər-stānd')  Pronunciation Key  
v.   un·der·stood (-stŏŏd'), un·der·stand·ing, un·der·stands 

v.   tr. 

To perceive and comprehend the nature and significance of; grasp. See Synonyms at apprehend. 
To know thoroughly by close contact or long experience with: That teacher understands children. 

To grasp or comprehend the meaning intended or expressed by (another): They have trouble with English, but I can understand them. 
To comprehend the language, sounds, form, or symbols of. 
To know and be tolerant or sympathetic toward: I can understand your point of view even though I disagree with it. 
To learn indirectly, as by hearsay: I understand his departure was unexpected. 
To infer: Am I to understand you are staying the night? 
To accept (something) as an agreed fact: It is understood that the fee will be 50 dollars. 
To supply or add (words or a meaning, for example) mentally. 

v.   intr. 


To have understanding, knowledge, or comprehension. 
To have sympathy or tolerance. 
To learn something indirectly or secondhand; gather. 


[Middle English understanden, from Old English understandan : under-, under- + standan, to stand; see stā- in Indo-European roots.] 

 The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. 
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This 
understand  

O.E. understandan "comprehend, grasp the idea of," probably lit. "stand in the midst of," from under + standan "to stand" (see stand). If this is the meaning, the under is not the usual word meaning "beneath," but from O.E. under, from PIE *nter- "between, among" (cf. Skt. antar "among, between," L. inter "between, among," Gk. entera "intestines;" see inter-). But the exact notion is unclear. Perhaps the ult. sense is "be close to," cf. Gk. epistamai "I know how, I know," lit. "I stand upon." Similar formations are found in O.Fris. (understonda), M.Dan. (understande), while other Gmc. languages use compounds meaning "stand before" (cf. Ger. verstehen, represented in O.E. by forstanden ). For this concept, most I.E. languages use fig. extensions of compounds that lit. mean "put together," or "separate," or "take, grasp."

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper 
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This understand 

verb 
1.  know and comprehend the nature or meaning of; "She did not understand her husband"; "I understand what she means"  
2.  perceive (an idea or situation) mentally; "Now I see!"; "I just can't see your point"; "Does she realize how important this decision is?"; "I don't understand the idea"  
3.  make sense of a language; "She understands French"; "Can you read Greek?"  
4.  believe to be the case; "I understand you have no previous experience?"  
5.  be understanding of; "You don't need to explain--I understand!" [syn: sympathize]  

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University. 
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This 
understand1 [andəˈstӕnd] verb — past tense, past participle ˌunderˈstood [-ˈstud]

to see or know the meaning of (something)
Example: I can't understand his absence; Speak slowly to foreigners so that they'll understand you.