[MD] the subjective

[Ian Glendinning]

I recall I must have scibbled "Exactly !" a hundred times in the
margins of Garfield's MKK when I first read it Marsha.

With this renewed interest I am going to have to open it up again. All
this "dependent arising" - "as if" - apparent causality, apparent
subjects / objects, apparent logical connections between subjects /
objects / causation, all spins out of this. The SOMist myth is well
explained by MKK IMHO.
Thanks.
Ian

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 9:37 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> This is from MKK:
>
> "What we are typically confronted with in nature is a vast network of
> interdependent and continuous processes, and carving our particular
> phenomenon for explanation depends more on our explanatory interests and
> language than on joints nature presents to us."
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Glendinning"
> <ian.glendinning at gmail.com>
> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] the subjective
>
>
>> Gav, David,
>>
>> Gav says
>> subjects and objects exist only as abstractions from this stream
>>
>> David says
>> ... objectivity [is] a view from nowhere, therefore always a fiction,
>> but useful ...
>>
>> Exactly both of you ... the actual experience is always an immediate
>> dynamic stream, the abstractions just things we can "pin down" whilst
>> we talk about them using traditional SOMist language and logic.
>>
>> Talking of which ... hearing in colour anyone ?
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7545888.stm
>> Ian
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 12:38 AM, gav <gav_gc at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> with respect ham i think you are overcomplicating things.
>>>
>>> parsimony has something to it you know...at least according to that
>>> ockham dude.
>>>
>>> 1. there is no 'before experience'; this would be a nonsense statement.
>>> (immediate) experience is t=0.
>>>
>>> 2. immediate experience is dynamic, a process, a flux....a stream. there
>>> are no objects or subjects in the stream.
>>>
>>> 3. subjects and objects exist only as abstractions from this stream.
>>>
>>> 4. this process of abstraction occurs at t>0 with respect to the part of
>>> the stream focussed on.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> gav
>>>
>>>
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