[MD] SOM - do we need it?

[David M]

Hi Peter

You're right, my mistake.

David M


> Hi David,
>
> I have not heard of a connection between Whitehead and F.M.Alexander. I 
> did
> a google search and came up with:
> 'A. N. Whitehead and Samuel Alexander were two of the few British
> philosophers who produced comprehensive metaphysical systems in the early
> part of this century'.
>
> But that is not the same Alexander.
>
> F.M.Alexander gave lessons in physical re-education to John Dewey over a
> period of many years (http://www.alexandertechnique.com/articles/dewey/).
>
> -Peter
>
> 2008/8/6 David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk>
>
>> Hi Peter
>>
>> And Alexander connects to Whitehead who connects to Dewey and
>> Heidegger who connects to Derrida and it might all just start to come
>> together in something that transcends Enlightenment thinking.
>>
>> DM
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hi Gav,
>>>
>>> I'd not heard of Merleau-Ponty before; I think there is a strong
>>> connection
>>> here with the work of F.M.Alexander and then a reinforcing tie back with
>>> Alexander's influence on Dewey. Alexander's was a very practical 
>>> approach
>>> to
>>> the use of the self especially with regard to postural habit. 
>>> Critically,
>>> the technique he developed is based absolutely on none-SOM principles in
>>> his
>>> treatment of the self as a psycho-physical organism where the 
>>> practitioner
>>> attempts to constantly re-establish sensory contact with the body and
>>> thereby lives more in the moment.
>>>
>>> Also, the practice of self-remembering (re-membering: again deliberate
>>> re-establishment of sensory contact with the body while working) is,
>>> without
>>> question, the most useful thing I took away from my time in Gurdjieff
>>> groups.
>>>
>>> -Peter
>>>
>>> 2008/7/29 gav <gav_gc at yahoo.com.au>
>>>
>>>  Pirsig's mission is to replace SOM with MOQ, so why are many on this 
>>> list
>>>> reluctant to let SOM go?
>>>>
>>>> the answer, i believe, is that SOM is so entrenched in our collective
>>>> psyche that it is very difficult to conceive of it being superceded. if
>>>> this
>>>> supercession were not difficult then pirsig needn't have spent decades
>>>> thinking through the problem. pirsig is not the first philosopher to
>>>> recognise the subject/object schism...indeed this profound dilemma has
>>>> been
>>>> haunting philosophy for centuries. to move beyond SOM requires radical
>>>> surgery.
>>>>
>>>> the intellectual cannot be solely SOM: the MOQ is an idea and it is not
>>>> SOM.
>>>>
>>>> to let go of SOM is to let go of the idea of dualism, of solipsism, of
>>>> the
>>>> possibility of pure objectivity. instead the subjective becomes 
>>>> partnered
>>>> with the intersubjective (to follow husserl and merleau-ponty). the
>>>> intersubjective world - the previously 'objective' world - is the world
>>>> of
>>>> phenomenal consensus.
>>>>
>>>> with the copernican re-ordering of the universe a schism was created: 
>>>> the
>>>> everyday world of our perceptions was usurped by the idea of the 'real'
>>>> order of a heliocentric universe. the locus is not with our own
>>>> body-subject
>>>> and its being-in-the-world, but with an abstract point of reference. 
>>>> this
>>>> abstract realm is only accessible by the intellect. in other words 
>>>> reason
>>>> becomes the sole method of recognising truth - plato's world of forms,
>>>> christian heaven, and the pre-eminence of (SOM) intellect all 
>>>> presuppose
>>>> and
>>>> perpetuate this abstract-phenomenal dichotomy with precedence given to
>>>> the
>>>> abstract. in other words the abstract becomes real and the phenomenal
>>>> becomes epiphenomenal: this is baudrillard's 'simulacrum' or the
>>>> spectacular
>>>> reality of the situationists. SOM is part of this worldview and it 
>>>> can't
>>>> be
>>>> separated from it. to try and hang on to SOM is to miss the point of
>>>> pirsig's work.
>>>>
>>>> the copernican revolution enthroned the sun as the centre of things; 
>>>> this
>>>> is a paternal standpoint. the earth is the goddess, the sun is god and
>>>> the
>>>> human is supposed to be the dynamic union of the two. since copernicus
>>>> the
>>>> earth has become merely an object and only god - the male aspect of
>>>> divinity
>>>> - is recognised.
>>>>
>>>> we perceive from earth. our experiential locus is the body-subject - 
>>>> this
>>>> is the experiential centre of the universe (god is an intelligible 
>>>> sphere
>>>> whose centre is everywhere and circumference nowhere - cusa). only from
>>>> this
>>>> point of view can we esemplastically reconcile the realms of heaven and
>>>> earth into a dynamic unity.
>>>>
>>>> if we need more proof of the need for SOM to be superceded we need only
>>>> look to phenomenology and existentialism. the psychopathological 
>>>> effects
>>>> of
>>>> SOM were recognised and predicted by husserl and others (most famously
>>>> dostoevsky). SOM is the 'disensoulment' of the earth - of ourselves. it
>>>> is
>>>> the mechanisation of life and human and it is this that is the meaning 
>>>> of
>>>> the robot/AI myths - NOT the production of truly intelligent autonomous
>>>> mechanical beings, but the production of mechanical beings from truly
>>>> intelligent autonomous ones!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> so i entreat one and all to stay true to the core of pirsig's work. if
>>>> you
>>>> think SOM is okay then you are very sorely mistaken and you should
>>>> probably
>>>> go back and read bob's books again...slowly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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