[MD] Falling out of Time/Space

Sun Aug 17 20:11:24 PDT 2008

Marsha, Gav,
Probably the most common way to think of this is that a spatial dimension
has "extension", as the old guys back in the day thought of it. So a
horizontal line has extension in one spatial dimension. You can move along
it back and forth in one dimension. A square has extension in two dimensions
and you can move back and forth along the north/south or east/west. In three
extended dimensions we can move north/south, east/west and up/down.

So number of the dimensions refers to your freedom to move back and forth
along pathways of spatial extension. Marsha is talking about moving just a
little bit farther and faster in the up/down third dimension than I am
comfortable with.

One common theme of being able to move in time is to treat as the ability to
move back and forth along a forth spatial extension. This is often applied
to time with the idea being that you could move back and forth in the
past/present. We actually have a very good feel for what this would be like
since memory of the past and projections for the future give us some sense
of what it would be like to actually do this. When we recall a past event we
approximate this. It is kind of like looking at a Necker Cube which provides
the illusion of three dimensions on a two dimension image. Memory and
envisioning the future is kind of like that. An illusion of four dimensions
existing in three dimensional space.

Many time travel scenarios use this theme as I said early. This is the view
some of our more grandiose MoQers hold as well. A more update view sees this
as not really accurate since by moving backward in time one would alter the
time a produce as a result a future different from the one you came from.
Quantum Leap played on this as Sam Beckett "leapt" around in his own
lifetime "setting right what once went wrong." "Time Cop" had this as a
premise as did the show "7 Days" where the chrononaught could jump back in
time seven days to fix things that got broken. "Terminator" is about man and
machines moving back in time to alter the present to change the future.

But I don't see why, how or for what reason you would get the feeling of all
temporal events happening at once or why timelessness would feel eternal. I
would think timelessness would feel like death or dreamless sleep. No fun in
that and certainly not much entertainment value in the narrative. 

Krimel

-----Original Message-----
From: MarshaV [mailto:marshalz at charter.net] 
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 10:05 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Falling out of Time/Space

Gav, Krimel,

Speaking of falling.  I made one freefall.  It was only 10 seconds 
and I counted the seconds to pull my ripcord.  But those seconds were 
very, very long.  I remember thinking that one could easily see their 
whole life pass before them in a few seconds.  I was still counting 
those seconds, but it felt like consciousness spread 
sideways/horizontal and there was lots of room of multiple thoughts 
at the same time.  It was amazing.

It was my last jump of the season.  The next spring my first jump was 
static line.  When I landed (in a cow field) I broke my ankle and 
that was the end of that.

You don't forget an experience like that.  Maybe it was so 
unforgettable because it was only one jump.

Anyway...

Marsha

At 06:45 PM 8/17/2008, you wrote:
>okay...i see.
>well i guess technically speaking everything that has happened or 
>will ever happen happens 'now'. that is the now contains all temporal
events.
>so...in theory it may be possible to travel back/forward in time, in 
>some manner of speaking.
>i don't think you can get separated from time - the eternal is what 
>encompasses and sustains time - infinite time if you like. to be 
>timeless is to be in eternity - the basic primordial flux devoid of 
>any conceptual differentiation. maybe we visit this dimension in 
>dreams....perhaps thatiis what it feels like to be a time traveller.
>
>
>
>--- On Mon, 18/8/08, Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com>
> > Subject: Re: [MD] Falling out of Time/Scace
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Received: Monday, 18 August, 2008, 8:30 AM
> > I was thinking more along the line of becoming actually
> > disconnected from
> > space time. You are sounding more like Donnie Darko kind of
> > unstuck or Adian
> > Quinn in the Jacket kind of unstuck. I mean what if you
> > could move your
> > existence along the temporal dimension like Dr. Who does.
> > Back and forth. In
> > time.
> >
> >
> > heya,
> >
> > > So conceptually, abstractly how would your perceptions
> > be
> > > changed if you
> > > fell out or became unhinged from time/space in say, a
> > non a
> > > priori way?
> > >
> >
> > time is subject to dilation/contraction, depending upon
> > your state of mind.
> > when meditating time seems to lose its linear regularity.
> > two hours can seem
> > like a lot shorter. same sorta thing with marijuana or acid
> > - time dilates.
> >
> > being 'in the zone' is one name for a non-linear
> > time experience. when in
> > the zone' it seems like one has plenty of time - to see
> > the ball etc. time
> > is slower for you than for your non-zoned opponent.
> >
> > i suppose that extreme meditators get close to a no-time
> > experience - for
> > the 'now' is eternal.
> >
> >
> > so i don't think you explode...or if you do it is a
> > subtle explosion.
> >
> >
> > > How might it affect your flow rate?
> > > All at once?
> > > Wouldn't you explode?
> > > Conceptually speaking of course.
> > > Krimel
> > > ---------------------------------------------------
> > > Gav said:
> > > time and space are patterns abstracted from
> > experience,
> > > like all others.
> > > they are not a priori categories of perception a la
> > kant.
> > >
> > > in other words time and space, inextricably linked of
> > > course, are perceptual
> > > constructs. they are conceptual.
> > >
> > > this is why time flows at different rates dependent
> > upon
> > > the state of the
> > > perceiver. 'to see eternity in an hour...'
> > >
> > > time is so everything doesn't happen at once.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 18/8/08, Krimel <Krimel at Krimel.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would say that Dr. Who has some of the best
> > > speculation
> > > > available on that
> > > > question. He has been bouncing back and forth
> > across
> > > his
> > > > own time line for
> > > > what; 30 something years now? Unless I am
> > mistaken he
> > > is
> > > > locked along the
> > > > same time continuum for some reason of another.
> > But
> > > > didn't he skip into
> > > > another timeline once or twice?
> > > >
> > > > STNG did a great episode that was like. the many
> > > worlds of
> > > > Worf, once.
> > > > Worf's of many different quantum worlds
> > appears at
> > > > once. I recall that
> > > > Voyager's from two timelines met and
> > eventually
> > > one of
> > > > the Janeways had to
> > > > sacrifice her crew and ship to save the other.
> > > >
> > > > If I really fell out of time/space I am not sure
> > if
> > > > experience would even be
> > > > sequential.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know! Where do you guys think you
> > would be
> > > if
> > > > you fell out of
> > > > time/space?
> > >
> > >
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.
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
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