[MD] Social & Intellectual Levels

[MarshaV]

At 09:00 AM 8/18/2008, you wrote:
>Marsha:
> >>
> >> How would you define the type of patterns in the Intellectual Level?
>
>
> >> Ron:
> >> I would describe it as the act of exceeding the highest social level
> >> patterns within a culture. To develop personal values
> >> through experience using the spirit of the highest social level values
> >> as a guide.
> >>
> >> Per RMP, the highest social patterns are the beginning of the lowest
> >> intellectual patterns.
> >
>
>Marsha:
>
>Been thinking about the way you described the patterns of the Intellectual
>Level.  Arête.  Very heroic, but not very cutting edge.  Sounds like you are
>justifying your own decisions.  (Those old Greeks were into little boys, how
>honorable was that?   Women were housebound and gagged.  How wise was
>that? )  It's as SOM as can be.  Who is to attain all these wonderful
>personal values if not a self (subject)?
>
>Ron:
>To begin with, that description was meant 
>generally speaking. To get specific and cite 
>some low-level static patterns that were and are
>practiced as examples of social ills is missing the point of the statement
>I made, I said simply that the HIGHEST social patterns which are social
>ideals of conduct are the BASE of intellectual thought. Social ideals
>are the basis of intellectual patterns.
>
>Some virtues (a virtue is a character trait or 
>character quality valued as being good) 
>recognized in various Western cultures of the world include:
>
>acceptance
>altruism,
>appreciation
>attention, focus
>autonomy
>awareness
>balance
>beauty
>benevolence
>caring
>charity
>cleanliness
>commitment
>compassion
>confidence
>consciousness
>consideration
>contentment
>cooperativeness
>courage
>courteousness
>  creativity
>curiosity
>dependability
>discernment
>empathy
>encouragement
>endurance
>enthusiasm
>equality
>equanimity
>equity
>excellence
>fairness
>faith
>faithfulness, fidelity
>fitness
>flexibility
>foresight
>forgiveness
>fortitude, strength
>freedom
>friendliness
>  generosity
>gentleness
>happiness
>health, health-minded
>helpfulness
>honesty
>hospitality
>humility
>humor
>imagination
>impartiality
>independence
>integrity
>intuition
>inventiveness
>joyfulness
>justice
>kindness
>lovingness
>loyalty
>  mercy
>moderation
>modesty
>nonviolence
>nurturing
>openness
>patience
>peacefulness
>perseverance
>prudence
>purposefulness
>resilience
>respectfulness
>reverence
>restraint
>  self-awareness
>self-confidence
>self-discipline
>self-reliance
>self-respect
>sensitivity
>sharing
>sincerity
>sympathy
>tactfulness
>temperance
>thankfulness
>thoughtfulness
>tolerance
>trustworthiness
>truthfulness
>understanding
>unity
>unselfishness
>wisdom
>
>Nowhere did I see pedophilia or wife beating as a social level ideal in
>Greek culture or our own but, that is not to say that it did not and does
>not happen. They are low-level social patterns which are closer to the
>biological level of patterns.
>
>Marsha:
>Getting beyond materialism is the most important step.  And that would be to
>get beyond materialism using analytic inquiry.  It would be nice to have
>enlightenment en Toto, but I doubt that is going to happen any time soon.
>Unless, of course, it occurs at our mass destruction.
>
>I found Nagarjuna's logic impeccable.  My understanding isn't nearly as
>thorough as I'd like, but I knew from the first time I read it that here was
>the key to putting subjects and objects in their subordinate place.  And
>unless the ILLUSION of a s/o world is understood deeply, there will be no
>deep insight.   The clinging and acquiring will continue.
>
>I'm assuming you've read Nagarjuna.  Have you?
>
>Ron:
>Yes I have, and I understand your point as provided above, It's just
>when you make a statement like:
>Intellectual Level:  Thought (patterns) established and emerging from
>analytic inquiry.
>
>It sounds to me that like Bo, you define the 
>intellectual level as Analytic thought. Which I 
>disagree with, the whole purpose of Nagarjuna's tetra lemma
>is to expose this fallacy through the use 
>analytics to deconstruct this method of thinking 
>which to an analytical mind has more success and 
>makes more sense then all the citations to the contrary, only through analytics
>may you prove that analytics is not the only way to intellectualize.
>
>thanks
>Marsha
>

Bo is right to state SOM is an enemy, but not as 
a thing-in-itself.  What makes it the enemy is 
that it is taken for the "way things are".

I came to this forum very suspicious of logic as 
the answer to all questions.  My objections have 
softened some.  But I'm not talking about any 
kind of formal logic, I mean analytical inquiry 
in the most general terms.  As in analytical 
skills (which may include formal logic, but may 
not) for problem solving of all kinds:  science, 
art, and even basic curiosity or would that be philosophy.

Your list of nice sounding words are abstract 
symbols alright.  That would make them patterns, 
but big deal.  They can be social patterns 
(goals) that your parents or the church drummed into your sweet little head.

Also, am not prejudice towards the Intellectual 
Level.  Frankly I like the Biological and the 
Social levels.  And let's face it, diamonds are a girls best friend.


Marsha







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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
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