[MD] What is SOM?

[Krimel]

> Krimel:
> The effects of experimenter bias are exactly the kinds of 'values'
> science rightly tries to avoid. As both experimenter and
> subject these biases would be likely to have a huge effect
> on the outcome of the study.

SA:  dmb, wouldn't you say that Krimel, and Krimel might you agree, that
what you (Krimel) say here is conflicting with what your saying below.
 By saying that

[Krimel]
I didn't say that science does not include the bias of the experimenter. I
said science attempts to account for and control experimenter bias. Dave's
proposal is an invitation to allow scientific mystics carte blanche to
interpret their own subjective data as objective fact. Only they would, I
suppose, have to phrase their results in terms Dave finds metaphysically
acceptable. What I was attempting to explain to him that it's been tried and
it doesn't work.

dmb paraphrasing Krimel:
> subjects and objects are inferred from experience BY THE
> SUBJECT, you reverse this central idea.

SA:  Krimel, your saying science does not include the bias of the
experimentor, but then you say here that "subjects and objects are inferred
from the experience by the 'subject'".  So by your logic, science doesn't
achieve what you say it achieves.  So, what's really happening?  
     I also understand this is a side note to the central discussion about
pure experience/dynamic quality.

[Krimel]
What I said before is that the MoQ is really only about how we form and
frame personal experience. The levels are entirely anthropocentric. Even in
this account of subject and objects being derive from experience. Where do
the distinctions end up? Objects in general don't give a crap. Also as James
points out, we sometimes derive from experience that we are subject and
sometimes that we are object. So it only partly right to assume that I mean,
"subjects and objects are inferred from experience BY THE SUBJECT." It is
just as true that sometimes when the distinction it made, "subjects and
objects are inferred from experience BY THE OBJECT."