[MD] What is SOM?

[David M]

Hi Jo/Krim

I think it is, because I think when we talk about DQ, creativity and
evolution, we are saying that we do notfind ourselves in an exclusively 
mechanical
or determined situation.We find that situations have a range of 
possibilities,
thaty we are notonly changed by our environment but can respond to it,
and response means enabling one set of possibilities to actualise and
foresaking other sets. Only where the possible has shrunk to a single
option, and this is rare, is anything mechanical and in any sense 
determined.
Being consciousis being aware of the possibilities available and trying to
attain and avoid certain of them. Of course, we don't always avoid
or achieve what we aim for.

regards
David M



DM: All our ideas about natural processes derive from experience and our
imaginative atempts to make sense of this experience and to narrate a story
of how we have got to this point. We have to assume an understanding of
experience to understand how we can tell these stories and make these
descriptions. We start from experience to tell a story of how we got to this
point. We always have to start the story from here even if we are telling a
story that starts with the big bang but ends with how we got to the point
where we could start to imagine a big bang once began this story. Before we
can take seriously our descritions of natural processes we need to
understand how we do this, so we need to understand experience
phenomenologically, we need to describe experience and how we create notions
like natural processes.

DM

Hi DM, Krimel and all,

I recently posted a quote from Maurice Nicoll who was a student of Jung,
Gurdjieff, Ouspensky. He posits:  ³Man is both in time and out of time.  Now
the sensual mind is based on time and space, but not the psychological mind.
We can say that only partial truth is accessible to the sensual mind². ³In
time² I took to be a description of the consciousness at the MOQ social
level.  ³Out of time² I read as a description of the consciousness at the
MOQ intellectual level.

In your opinion is this a phenomenological understanding of a description of
experience and how we create notions like natural processes?  IMO
Consciousness evolves.



Joe



On 8/24/08 3:50 PM, "David M" <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Hi Krim
>
>> [Krimel]
>> What I have said is that experience is the product of these neural
>> processes. Experience emerges from those patterns of neural firings.
>> Understanding those physiological processes can add greatly to our
>> understanding of how experiences arise. You claim not to deny natural
>> processes but you do want to ignore them. I don't see a distinction 
>> there.
>
> DM: All our ideas about natural processes derive from experience and
> our imaginative atempts to make sense of this experience and to narrate
> a story of how we have got to this point. We have to assume an 
> understanding
> of experience to understand how we can tell these stories and make these
> descriptions. We start from experience to tell a story of how we got to 
> this
> point. We always have to start the story from here even if we are telling 
> a
> story that starts with the big bang but ends with how we got to the point
> where we could start to imagine a big bang once began this story. Before
> we can take seriously our descritions of natural processes we need to
> understand how we do this, so we need to understand experience
> phenomenologically,
> we need to describe experience and how we create notions like natural
> processes.
>
> DM
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Furthermore, for all your talk of mysticism and the perennial philosophy
>> you
>> have precious little to say about their relevance.
>>
>> [dmb]
>> Krimel. As I see it, you've still got zero points on the board. What is
>> it,
>> four to nothing? Five?
>>
>> [Krimel]
>> OK, you win. I don't have time for playing games and keeping score. I 
>> love
>> you death man but I sincerely have bigger fish to fry. You too will be
>> disappearing shortly I suspect. Good luck with school. I hope you pay
>> attention in your social sciences classes. Let me know if I can help.
>>
>>
>>
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