[MD] In and out of intellect

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Ron

2 Dec.you  wrote:

.... after I had said

> > Mati's use of reason seems to be INTELLIGENCE (that perhaps was the
> > biological "carbon" that built society?) what intellect adapted in its
> > turn for its own evolution from the rudimentary start with the Greeks to
> > a complexity that spawned the intellectual "building block" for the MOQ.
> > What this is I haven't yet fathomed, perhaps the hyper-intellect of 
> > Phaedrus? Or his Quality Idea which emerged as an intellectual pattern,
> > but "took off on a purpose of its own".  Oops, did this application of
> > Pirsigs "carbon" model inadvertently resolve our quandary? The
> > intellectual "carbon" that built the MOQ is the Quality Idea and this is
> > intellectual and will remain intellectual, but the  MOQ itself.....?? 

Ron:

> The Quality concept" Arete", as you stated above was replaced by SOM.
> Following this statement you post: "The intellectual "carbon" that
> built the MOQ is the Quality Idea and this is intellectual and will
> remain intellectual" First you say Quality or Arete is social and is
> replaced by SOM the (intellectual level )then you say Quality is an
> intellectual pattern. I ask, which is it? is Quality social or
> intellectual?  

Quality comes in four static forms: inorganic, biological, social and 
intellectual. In ZAMM Pirsig saw the coming of SOM as seen as fall 
from quality. I look back on this from the MOQ proper, and interpret it 
as the intellectual level's emergence from the social level.        

> By your Pirsig Quote  above :

    Just as every biological pattern is also inorganic, but not all 
    inorganic patterns are biological; and just as every social   level 
    is also biological, although not all biological patterns are   
    social; SO EVERY INTELLECTUAL PATTERN IS SOCIAL     
    ALTHOUGH NOT ALL SOCIAL PATTERNS ARE     
    INTELLECTUAL "  

> I take it you recognize that Quality is a social level pattern and the
> "carbon" for intellect. 

Quality a social level pattern? THE SOCIAL LEVEL IS A QUALITY 
STAGE and one one such pattern was/is the "carbon" that built 
intellect. I pointed to language as the said pattern.  

> But you do not draw this conclusion. You maintain that Quality is an
> intellectual pattern and will remain an intellectual pattern. 

You really are enigmatic. I said that the Quality Idea (ideas are what 
intellect has monopolized) was the intellectual "carbon" that built the 
MOQ. However, here we are at out wits' end. The MOQ is no static 
level, but the metaphysics that contains, not only the static levels, but 
itself and here logic breaks down.  

> I have to say I'm quite confused with this contradiction.
> Could you please clear this up?

I just have, but if it will be understood?

  
Bo